T Nation

Some Words of Encouragement to Get Dialed In?


#1

Hi guys, I am posting today because I feel like I am in a really lonely place with no one to discuss my TRT with, I am losing hope of it ever working for me, I am 3 months into treatment and not benefiting from it like I hoped I would.

Please forgive me but I cannot post my labs as they are on my PC at work.

Protocol;

Sustanon 250, 105mg E5D

Latest bloods

Testosterone: 1100
E2: 57

I do have high E2 sides, weird sensation in nipples, moody, insomnia, flaccid erections, really emotional etc. I know I won’t feel full benefits until E2 is in check:

I tried arimidex 0.25 E3D which gave me stomach issues. Switched to aromasin 6.25 EOD which didn’t mix well with the remeron that I take for anxiety as they both cause drowsiness, also caused nausea and dizziness.

I would love it if I could finally get dialled in without using an AI .

I wanted to ask your opinion if a new protocol of 50mg E3.5D of Sustanon would be better, less of a spike in T and E and if you thought this would keep the E2 in check.

I live in the UK and I know Sustanon 250 is not the preferred testosterone treatment in the US, I know Sustanon has short and long acting Esther’s so I’m not sure if a 3.5 day protocol would work for this particular testosterone.

I am sorry about the lack of lab results but I’m hoping what I said makes sense. I am a newbie on here so please also excuse my lack of knowledge and please be gentle with me haha!

Please give me some positivity guys


#2

I tried Sustanon. I did 250 every 2 weeks, but it wasn’t enough. I aromatize and use a small amount of AI. My test levels were “right” using 250 every two weeks and 60 mg of enanthate or Cyp in between, so it was a weekly injection of something. If anything, you could cut you dose a little, as a little less T will mean a little less E. Zinc is supposed to help with aromatizing, but personally I feel like it did nothing. Sustanon is not meant to be split into multiple injections, what happens when you do the whole dose every other week, or every week?


#3

Thanks for the reply. To be honest I haven’t tried any longer than 1 week injections @ 125mg, which also raised my E2


#4

I would recommend lowering your dose and injecting e3.5d. My E2 came down each time I increased the frequency of injections.


#5

Your protocol is to blame for your suffering.

Large infrequent injections can cause you to aromatase more than if you do smaller more frequent injections, I recommend smaller injections EOD, everyday and or switch over to enanthate. At this point you have nothing to lose and everything to gain from smaller more frequent dosing.

I don’t think going with every 3.5 days injections is going to make a dramatic difference, however an (20mg) EOD or (7-10mg) everyday protocol will make a dramatic difference. You could use 29 gauge insulin syringes for painless injecting.

I would be a bloated hippo on 75mg every 7 days let alone every 5 days. When I did daily dosing estrogen had never been lower when compared with previous protocols.

As it stands now your dosage is too high and you need to increase injection frequencies.

It would help to know your SHBG levels.


#6

Thanks for the reply, I will post you my labs on wednesday when I get back to work.
I seem to remember the SHBG was well within range.
Unfortunately Sustanon 250 is all that the doctor will prescribe for me, I have enquiried about the Test E in the past but it was unavailable.

I really don’t like the injections so I wanted to minimise the frequency as much as possible, I’m not a fan of needles :-/

Sat here pondering my options, I may give the arimidex another go, I’m thinking 50mg Test E3.5D and take 0.25mg of arimidex at the same time.

Could this work?

Thanks for your time buddy, much appreciated


#7

Insulin syringes will make injections painless and will help with increasing the frequency.


#8

Within range could be low normal or high normal SHBG, a very big difference and can dictate your TRT protocol.

To be honest I don’t think 50mg twice weekly will be enough to lower estrogen enough to matter, I know you really would prefer to not to inject more frequently, but you may have to do just that. AI’s are used when you have exhausted all other options to control estrogen and you have not done so yet.

Trust when I say you will feel better if you keep the AI out of your TRT protocol.


#9

I will report back on Wednesday :+1:t2:


#10

I will ask the doctor for some for me to try, thanks


#11

Hi,

Please see below my labs, I think some of the measurements are different to the US measurements, but hopefully they make sense.

Biochemistry
Albumin 42.0 35 - 50 g/L New range

Hormones
FSH <0.3 Men 1.5-12.4 IU/L
Follicular 3.5-12.5
Ovulation 4.7-21.5
Luteal 1.7-7.7
Postmenopause 25.8-134.8
LH <0.3 Men 1.7 - 8.6 IU/L
Follicular 2.4 - 12.6
Ovulation 14.0 - 95.6
Luteal 1.0 - 11.4
Postmenopause 7.7 - 58.5
Oestradiol H 206 41 - 159 pmol/L
Testosterone H 37.50 8.64 - 29 nmol/L
SHBG 40 18.3 - 54.1 nmol/L
Free-Testosterone(Calculated) H 0.842 0.2 - 0.62 nmol/L
Prolactin H 394 86 - 324 mU/L

Thyroid Function
TSH 1.93 0.27 - 4.20 mIU/L
Free T4 15.00 12.0 - 22.0 pmol/L

Markers
PSA (Prostate) 1.090 <2 ug/L New range

My insomnia and anxiety are off the scale, I barely sleep these days, definitely got worse since the TRT, are these common symptoms of high E2?

Today I started the new protocol of 50mg test every 3.5 days and 0.25mg of arimidex at the same time of the shot, hopefully this will be better for me.

I will look forward to your reply, thanks!


#12

Total testosterone is 1080 ng/dL and estrogen is 56 pg/mL. This value for estrogen would give most men symptoms, I would be bloated and extremely cranky.

Stop the AI and give you body a chance to make more estrogen, you shouldn’t be using anastrozole until you have played around on injection frequencies to lower estrogen. I think you would so better on an 20-25mg EOD protocol and you may not even need an AI.


#13

Thanks for your reply…

You mentioned: “Stop the AI and give you body a chance to make more estrogen”

Why would I want more Estrogen if it’s already too high? Forgive me if I misunderstood this

Thanks


#14

Estrogen will decrease because you are injecting half as much testosterone per injection, estrogen will decrease and find a new lower level in 6 weeks.

Whenever you go from 105mg per injection to 50mg per injection, the spike in T is less and since E always follows T, the estrogen spike will be lower.


#15

Thanks for helping me out on this, I will try the more frequent dosing and see where I am in a few weeks.
Thanks again buddy


#16

You’re welcome, glad I could help.

If you get to 6 weeks on the 3.5 day protocol and estrogen is higher than you would like it, you can lower the dosage to 40-45mg every 3.5 days or move over to an EOD protocol which has a better chance at keeping testosterone higher and estrogen lower.


#17

For me, moving to eod increased my e2. Even with a lower dosage of test.

Right now I’m trying a little arimidex e3 days at .50mg per dose. Feeling the test a bit more. Better mental clarity and mood.


#18

Hey, thanks for the input, can you kindly keep me up to date with your progress over the next couple of weeks?

I started at 0.5ml every 7 days then moved to 0.3ml every 5 days which greatly increased my E2, which I was quite surprised about.

I’m now on a 0.2ml every 3.5 days protocol, I have added 0.25mg of arimidex at the time of the shot, I know systemlord advised against the AI but I had already started it so decided to see what happens over the next few weeks,


#19

I will.

I can tell when my e2 lowers cause I start feeling more crisp in my thoughts and speaking. Overall better sense of well being.


#20

I am not enjoying benefitting from the TRT yet, I know I am not dialled into it, I can’t possibly be feeling good with high E2, the testosterone isn’t able to do it’s job.

My main symptoms are;

Insomnia (this is terrible)
Anxiety
Lethargy
Brain fog
Sexual Dysfunction

I am praying that the new regime will get me dialled in, I really want to feel the full benefits of TRT, I didn’t realise it would be this difficult before I started treatment, but reading everyone’s stories I see I am not alone.

The main thing I need to see improve is the sleep, once this improves then I’m hoping the anxiety will subside, lack of sleep and anxiety are fuelling each other right now.
I never use to have trouble sleeping.

As I read it, the AI won’t clear the E2 that’s already there but will stop any more T being converted to E, I guess I just need to wait for the excess to be dispelled in it’s own time.

How long was it before you could feel a difference, days, weeks, months?

Thanks