T Nation

Some Serious First Cycle Input.

Hi, I’m a 25 year old male, 5’8 170 lbs. I’ve been having joint issues for a while and decided to turn to deca for some extra help. I’m also looking to post some good gains. I have never used steroids before, this is my first time.

I have with me:

  • 2 vials of decaplex 275 (10 ml each)
  • 2 vials of sustaplex 325 (10 ml each)
  • Clomiplex tablets (Clomid - 25 tablets each containing 73.6 mg of clomiphene citrate)
  • Tamoxiplex tablets (Nolvadex - 50 tablets each containing 30.4 mg of tamoxifen citrate)

I was planning on pinning monday and thursday but now I realize that some esthers in the sustaplex would be better to do every other day. I’m new to this, and realize that 3 cc’s a week (equallying 975 mg of test) would probably be too much. I was thinking more along the lines of 650 mg of sustaplex.

It was suggsted that on Mondays I shoot a full cc of deca (250 mg) with 0.75 cc of sustaplex Monday Wed and Fri. I’m not sure if this schedule is ideal. I want to make sure that my blood levels and test levels are stable.

I’m turning to this community to brainstorm some possible alternatives to my injection schedule and the amounts. Anything at all related to this cycle would be helpful. Any information is good information.

Thanks!

hmmm

okay theres too much crap up there with too many plex’s to make sense of lol first of all i dotn think you ever say how much deca your planning on taking per week do us a favor lay it out like so

wk1-? ???mg wk test
wk1-? ???mg wk deca
wk?-? PCT with …

Good ol’ 5:3 ratio of testosterone | nandrolone always works well.

You could probably get away with injecting both compounds E3D (ideally EOD for the “Sustaplex”) in the same syringe, for simplicity.

What kind of PCT did you have in mind?

The generally recommended ratio for test to deca is 5:3, with 500mg/week test, 300mg/week deca being a quite commonly run cycle.

Now the sustaplex you’re running is nearly identical to Andropen, which I am running right now. It has 30mg/ml of testosterone acetate, as well as 50mg each of prop and phenylprop making up the shorter esters.

The good news is I’ve gotten good results with the blend, the bad news is I am pinning every day, and you should too.

At the concentration of your blend, .22ml/day would give you about 71mg/day, which would put you right around 500mg/week.

Now you can take your chances and pin M,W,F, which by the way, is NOT the same as EOD, but if you want to keep sides down and gains up you’ll suck it up and do it the right way.

You can get some .5ml slin pins which will make the small amounts easier to measure and the injections fairly painless.

Sounds like a lot of hassle?

That’s why no one would recommend a blend like this for a first cycle.

But you have the product. You’ve picked your horse so now you have to ride it. Once you get your injection technique down, it will really be quite easy. Just think of it as one more daily chore.

The deca is fine to pin once per week, though some will pin 2x week.

This will give you a rather unorthodox injection schedule, but it is doable. In the future this will be an important consideration to make before you order your gear.

Feel free to ask if you need any further assistance.

I almost forgot, deca should be run for at least ten weeks due to the long decanoate ester, and should be stopped two weeks prior to the test as it will take longer to clear your system.

Now your test blend has some test decanoate in it, which throws things off a bit, but to keep the ratio in check and avoid possible sexual dysfunction I’d still run the test for a couple weeks longer.

This would put you at 10 weeks for the deca and twelve for the sustaplex.

That’s 94 injections.

That’s why most people hate test blends.

Word to that! I will shoot ED for Tren Ace though :slight_smile:

kevy82 your problem is your ratio of Deca to Test as aforementioned many people myself included like to see something in the 5Test to 3Deca or even 2-1 ratio. If you use what you got in the quantities you got them IMO you have too little test. For instance 550mg Deca and 650mg Sust a week is not something I would endorse. Deca is a funny beast. You hear rumors of guys running 600mg a week without Test and being just fine. But you also hear about guys who can swallow swords I don’t endorse that either.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
Word to that! I will shoot ED for Tren Ace though :slight_smile:

kevy82 your problem is your ratio of Deca to Test as aforementioned many people myself included like to see something in the 5Test to 3Deca or even 2-1 ratio. If you use what you got in the quantities you got them IMO you have too little test. For instance 550mg Deca and 650mg Sust a week is not something I would endorse. Deca is a funny beast. You hear rumors of guys running 600mg a week without Test and being just fine. But you also hear about guys who can swallow swords I don’t endorse that either.[/quote]

Funny how no one complains about pinning Tren Ace ED.

Could have something to do with the incredible and simultaneous gains in strength, mass and leanness.

[quote]arthursaxon wrote:

Could have something to do with the incredible and simultaneous gains in strength, mass and leanness.
[/quote]

mmm mmm mmm i cant wait!

LOL this is all great stuff guys, can’t thank you enough.

I’m really having a hard time deciding what to do now. I probably should have done my research before choosing my first cycle. I’ve been reading posts about insane amounts of acne with permanent damage at the end of a cycle because the dosage was too high (using a sust and deca combo). I’ll be honest too, having acne already and hearing these stories scares the hell out of me.

So I guess that it’s agreed upon here that the ratio of sust/deca should be 5/3. I hear that the average test cycle per week is 500mg. I’m fine with that as long as I can, without a problem, measure the exact amounts. I’ve never done this before so I’m curious as to how accurate an injection can be.

This will probably be the last time I do a test blend after seeing how complicated it actually is with the different esters. I’m not entirely sure of how the different tests within the sustaplex will pose a problem if I inject it everyday. Some are shorter, some are longer… I’m assuming that there’s a big problem with the shorter esters, but for the longer ones, is it okay for them to overlap?

Thanks again for everybodys time. I love this site and you guys!

Overlap is not a problem as the long esters will be releasing very slowly. Pinning everyday covers all the bases, and gives you the best chance to avoid any negative sides.

If you get .5ml slin pins (insulin syringes), it will be very easy to measure small amounts, as they are marked in IUs, which is 1/100th of a ml. So if you are needing to pin the .22ml/day that will give you around 500mg/week, you’d just fill the syringe to 22 IUs. It should all be very intuitive once you have the syringe in your hand.

You have a combined 6.5 grams of test in your two 10ml vials, so you can run 500mg/week for 12 weeks and have a little cushion in case the vials are under filled.

I’ve been running the Andropen for 7 weeks now, pinning every day for the first 5 and now every 16 hours since I upped my dose a bit and am using the .5ml slin pins. It’s really not as bad as people make it out to be. If you use proper injection technique and rotate sites intelligently you shouldn’t have any problems.

If you need help figuring out which sites to use and how to rotate, let me know, as I’ve experimented quite a bit with this.

Art

Hi, yes I could definetely use your help on figuring out what sites to use and how to rotate. Maybe even articles or tutorials would be handy if anybody has links handy.

How did you get the calculation of .22ml / day?

500mg/week equals about 71mg/day.

Your test blend is 325mg/ml.

71 divided by 325 equals about .22.

I’ll post more about injection sites shortly.

Art

Thanks Art!

is it okay to round the dosage up to the nearest whole number? I guess needles don’t get that acccurate right?

that was a dumb question forget I asked that…

Sounds like Tren Ace ED is the stack to be on lol

[quote]Game_over wrote:
arthursaxon wrote:

Could have something to do with the incredible and simultaneous gains in strength, mass and leanness.

mmm mmm mmm i cant wait! [/quote]

[quote]kevy82 wrote:
that was a dumb question forget I asked that… [/quote]

Not really a dumb question.

If you use the .5ml slin pins (which I HIGHLY recommend for ED injections), you can accurately measure .22ml.

If you rounded to .2ml, you’d just be getting a little less test (about 455mg/week instead of 500mg).

[quote]kevy82 wrote:
Sounds like Tren Ace ED is the stack to be on lol

[/quote]

you can tell summers coming up lol

why do you like that stack so much?