T Nation

Soldier Owning Iraqi Police

very well-done pep talk.

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
very well-done pep talk.[/quote]

Not when you get the dialog, as opposed to the monologue.

I can empathize with the poor American schlobs who were put in this impossible situation, but this video is already used to show how the arrogant, disrespectful, potty-mouth, armed-to-the-teeth GI is humiliating Iraqis/Arabs/Muslims after invading their lands.

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[quote]lixy wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
very well-done pep talk.

Not when you get the dialog, as opposed to the monologue.

I can empathize with the poor American schlobs who were put in this impossible situation, but this video is already used to show how the arrogant, disrespectful, potty-mouth, armed-to-the-teeth GI is humiliating Iraqis/Arabs/Muslims after invading their lands.[/quote]

go watch a bin laden video.

[quote]lixy wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
very well-done pep talk.

Not when you get the dialog, as opposed to the monologue.

I can empathize with the poor American schlobs who were put in this impossible situation, but this video is already used to show how the arrogant, disrespectful, potty-mouth, armed-to-the-teeth GI is humiliating Iraqis/Arabs/Muslims after invading their lands.[/quote]

Yes and no. I’ve talked to a couple of soldiers and Marines about this video after seeing it posted on another board and they said it’s entirely situation dependent. I.e. that could be an example of the Ugly American engaged in self-defeating behavior, or it could be a necessary ass-chewing that will motivate those Iraqi policemen. All depends on situation and context.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
lixy wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
very well-done pep talk.

Not when you get the dialog, as opposed to the monologue.

I can empathize with the poor American schlobs who were put in this impossible situation, but this video is already used to show how the arrogant, disrespectful, potty-mouth, armed-to-the-teeth GI is humiliating Iraqis/Arabs/Muslims after invading their lands.

Yes and no. I’ve talked to a couple of soldiers and Marines about this video after seeing it posted on another board and they said it’s entirely situation dependent. I.e. that could be an example of the Ugly American engaged in self-defeating behavior, or it could be a necessary ass-chewing that will motivate those Iraqi policemen. All depends on situation and context.[/quote]

Unfortunately 2/3 of that context are provided by the cultural background of the people watching this video and it probably translates into “ugly American” into Arabic.

Ah, the mere thought of a Chinese officer, ridiculing American policemen after he an his army destroyed 2/3 of the US.

I can see how every American would take that lesson to heart…

… and repeat it back to him before killing him in an ambush.

And calling Arabs women, nice touch. I´d go for dogs and fags for maximum effect, but that is probably a question of personal preference.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
lixy wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
very well-done pep talk.

Not when you get the dialog, as opposed to the monologue.

I can empathize with the poor American schlobs who were put in this impossible situation, but this video is already used to show how the arrogant, disrespectful, potty-mouth, armed-to-the-teeth GI is humiliating Iraqis/Arabs/Muslims after invading their lands.

Yes and no. I’ve talked to a couple of soldiers and Marines about this video after seeing it posted on another board and they said it’s entirely situation dependent.[/quote]

Unless they were Iraqi soldiers, I don’t see how this is relevant. One of the cops in the video replied that American jets attacked them thinking they were Iranians.

The way you perceive the video is most certainly situation dependent, as illustrated by the proud (probably even nationalistic) stance of the OP. From an Iraqi perspective, it’s straightforward: American soldiers invade them, then go around humiliating Iraqi policemen.

I am not judging the necessity of insults in motivating cops. I just pointed out that this particular video is used for propaganda purposes by the groups Washington calls “insurgents”.

The point being that anything an invading army does, will be used to incite hatred against it. It can’t be that hard to grasp.

[quote]orion wrote:
Ah, the mere thought of a Chinese officer, ridiculing American policemen after he an his army destroyed 2/3 of the US.
[/quote]

Yes indeed. The mind conjures images of a Chinese army officer ridiculing a group of U.S. Marshals for not more aggressively rooting out and eradicating the armed militia groups (with which the Marshals secretly sympathize) that had formed to resist the Chinese occupation.

It’s humorous to watch, and anyone who has been there is lying if they say they havent day dreamed about doing the same thing, but counter productive. Cursing at an Iraqi (they know our curses quite well) is an effort in futility.

Yup, I sympathize with that Soldier; no doubt there are many ‘dirty’ IPs standing in that formation. But he might as well have been venting to a wall. Zero effect.

Lix, I’d be interested in knowing how accurate that guy’s translator was in conveying the message to the Iraqis.

Also, the one or two police who responded in rebuttal, I’d love to know what they said beside the comment about American patrols mistaking them for Iranians.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Lix, I’d be interested in knowing how accurate that guy’s translator was in conveying the message to the Iraqis. [/quote]

For one thing, there was no cursing.

Some parts were completely off. For examples, “I don’t see your ass in my hometown!” was translated as “nobody comes to my place”.

But I would think everybody got the message just from the tone and the repeated use of “fucking”.

The most vocal of them said that when they go on patrols, US planes and Humvees encircle them and shoot at them. He repeated twice that their leader was “taken” by the Americans. He also said that the American would find looking at them from a distance entertaining and kill them. The other Iraqi cop said that the presence of Americans make their job impossible.

And just to be clear, nobody said “mistaking”.

Forget Chinese invasions of America, or Iraqis mistaken for Iranians. He has a point. The insurgents aren’t freedom fighters. They aren’t fighting for the freedom of the opposite sect, women, relgious minorities, etc. Nor for a non-sectarian Democracy.

After all, they often bomb each other’s markets, or chase each other out of neighborhoods. A Freedom fighter doesn’t leave dead women in ditches because their head wasn’t covered. Or, kill civilians in markets because they’re a different sect.

These cops have to drop the tribe/sect mentality. They have to be willing to go into their own neighborhoods, against their own sects/tribes/clerics and enforce the law for ALL Iraqis. No turning a blind eye. No favors.

Americans will be leaving, so they had better make a decision concerning their loyalties soon. Any hope for Iraq after we start pulling out rests on these guys willingness to face often suicidal enemies. And, to arrest and kill their own.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
The insurgents aren’t freedom fighters. They aren’t fighting for the freedom of the opposite sect, women, relgious minorities, etc. Nor for a non-sectarian Democracy. [/quote]

Unlike Reagan’s “freedom fighters”?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
The insurgents aren’t freedom fighters. They aren’t fighting for the freedom of the opposite sect, women, relgious minorities, etc. Nor for a non-sectarian Democracy.

Unlike Reagan’s “freedom fighters”?
[/quote]

Sorry, but I just don’t have the patience for games today. I’ll be staying on topic.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Americans will be leaving, so they had better make a decision concerning their loyalties soon. Any hope for Iraq after we start pulling out rests on these guys willingness to face often suicidal enemies. And, to arrest and kill their own.[/quote]

Problem is, “Iraq” has always been an artificial construct that can only be held together by force. Iraq and its people have no history of nor familiarity with democratic institutions. There has never been an “Iraqi” nation. There has always been three de facto states, carryovers from the Ottoman Empire, loosely united, with no mutual cohesiveness.

Mosul in the north is Kurdish, Basra in the south is Shiite Arab, Baghdad in the middle is Sunni Arab. The Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis all hate each other. Any loyalty any Iraqi has is going to be to his tribe, to his sect, and to the people in his hometown. Not to a phony “United States of Iraq.”

The vid is unreal.

I see that one liners from Clint Eastwood, Schwarzenegger et al had more influence on how to educate iraqi police in a productive and prudent way then anything else.

I so expect a blooming democracy!

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Forget Chinese invasions of America, or Iraqis mistaken for Iranians. He has a point. The insurgents aren’t freedom fighters. They aren’t fighting for the freedom of the opposite sect, women, relgious minorities, etc. Nor for a non-sectarian Democracy.

After all, they often bomb each other’s markets, or chase each other out of neighborhoods. A Freedom fighter doesn’t leave dead women in ditches because their head wasn’t covered. Or, kill civilians in markets because they’re a different sect.

These cops have to drop the tribe/sect mentality. They have to be willing to go into their own neighborhoods, against their own sects/tribes/clerics and enforce the law for ALL Iraqis. No turning a blind eye. No favors.

Americans will be leaving, so they had better make a decision concerning their loyalties soon. Any hope for Iraq after we start pulling out rests on these guys willingness to face often suicidal enemies. And, to arrest and kill their own.[/quote]

Curiously enough, freedom fighers did always did that.
But you’re right, from our point of view, they should drop their mentality.

But why should they really do that?

It’s like saying, we all should talk and forget this crap about violence, bombs and marching. We can do this!

In theory, it sounds awesome.

Individuals can’t even part with bad habits, so how can you expect from various tribes and groups to suddently drop their traditions?
Not even Saddam could have hoped to manage this.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Americans will be leaving, so they had better make a decision concerning their loyalties soon. Any hope for Iraq after we start pulling out rests on these guys willingness to face often suicidal enemies. And, to arrest and kill their own.

Problem is, “Iraq” has always been an artificial construct that can only be held together by force. Iraq and its people have no history of nor familiarity with democratic institutions. There has never been an “Iraqi” nation. There has always been three de facto states, carryovers from the Ottoman Empire, loosely united, with no mutual cohesiveness.

Mosul in the north is Kurdish, Basra in the south is Shiite Arab, Baghdad in the middle is Sunni Arab. The Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis all hate each other. Any loyalty any Iraqi has is going to be to his tribe, to his sect, and to the people in his hometown. Not to a phony “United States of Iraq.” [/quote]

I don’t dispute this. The Iraqis probably need a tyrant to keep them from killing each other. Someone that scares even jihadists. Someone willing to torture or gas your family, your village, whatever, in order to keep the tyrant’s peace.

Iraq’s only hope is for it’s security forces and politicians to drop this mentality. They have to be willing to confront even their own in order to keep Iraq together. Of course, I don’t see that happening on a large enough scale.

Many more of these cops probably will feel secure enough to hook up with brutal militias reflecting their individual sect/tribe, subjugating their non-muslim neighbors, killing the other sect, oppressing the hell out of women, and trying to establish their own idea of an Islamic theocracy, once US forces pull out.

I’m just stating what needs to happen. Not that I’m optimistic about it.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

Not even Saddam could have hoped to manage this.[/quote]

Oh, I think he could have.