I have a home fully equipped gym so I can eat solid meals any time I want.
so do I have to use protein powders, dextrose (sucrose) etc. , reagrding my pre and post workout nutrition)?
or simply eat 2 hours before workout a solid meal: lots of low gi carbs, lots of animal protein (turkey breast), a little fat
and directly after workout drink vitamin juice (100% fruits) ~30g carbs and take shower and after 20 minutes eat solid meal with solid amount of lean beef & basmati rice
is that ok?
Postworkout I would drink the juice than a whey shake than wait ~ 40minutes to an hour
than have the solid meal.
I would actually replace the 100% fruit juice with a dextrose shake. You could either add
the dextrose with the whey or have it first than the whey.
Fruit has been shown to replenish liver glycogen more so than muscle glycogen
fruit also is not as high on the Glycemic Index as many people think.
but if i can have solid meal (meat+rice) almost immediately after workout?
[quote]fqqs wrote:
but if i can have solid meal (meat+rice) almost immediately after workout?[/quote]
I take some maltodextrin and whey 30 minutes before lifting, some anaconda before, during and on the walk home from the gym and then shower and eat a solid meal when I get home. Solid meals too soon before lifting don’t feel too good for me.
How much you eat is way more important than the timing and how fast it absorbs, don’t sweat this stuff. Solid meals are fine, big people existed before shakes.
[quote]fqqs wrote:
but if i can have solid meal (meat+rice) almost immediately after workout?[/quote]
Yes, you can have a solid meal immediately after working out. The “post-workout” nutrition window is massively over-hyped in muscle magazines. While there is a lot of credible science pointing towards peri-workout nutrition, it’s not nearly as important as most would make it out t be.
Unless you are an elite level athlete, working out multiple times a day, I highly doubt you need to worry about whether your post workout meal is juice, dextrose, whey, or just a big solid meal. The fact of the matter is you simply need to get some food in your body sometime after you workout, whether that be from solid or liquid meals is up to you.
im only amateur who wants gain some functional strength and good look
so, all in all:
pre workout meal 2 hours before workout (lots of carbs, protein, and a little fat)
immediately after workout small bottle of pure orange/fruit juice (25g carbs)
20 min later solid meal with meat and rice
i eat only 5 meals a day, so I eat pre wokrout meal 2h before workout since that meal is sort of big (90g carbs, 40g protein, 15-20g fats)
I used to obsess about my PWO ‘meal’ a few years ago. I thought I absolutely needed to race home and down some whey with simple carbs or else my body would just shrivel up like a raisin. Since then, I’ve come to realize that if your peri-workout nutrition is adequately addressed, you don’t need to be a nut about the post workout window as much.
As I rely pretty heavily on Finibars and Anaconda, I figure I’m avoiding all of the depletion and potential catabolism that most people need to be concerned with. After I train, I’ll take my time getting home, take the dog out, answer some emails, and maybe 45 mins to an hour later I’ll have a solid meal. I’ve been doing this since '09, and my contest weight has been steadily going up. Guess I’m not losing any muscle by having whole foods an hour after training 
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I used to obsess about my PWO ‘meal’ a few years ago. I thought I absolutely needed to race home and down some whey with simple carbs or else my body would just shrivel up like a raisin. Since then, I’ve come to realize that if your peri-workout nutrition is adequately addressed, you don’t need to be a nut about the post workout window as much.
As I rely pretty heavily on Finibars and Anaconda, I figure I’m avoiding all of the depletion and potential catabolism that most people need to be concerned with. After I train, I’ll take my time getting home, take the dog out, answer some emails, and maybe 45 mins to an hour later I’ll have a solid meal. I’ve been doing this since '09, and my contest weight has been steadily going up. Guess I’m not losing any muscle by having whole foods an hour after training
S[/quote]
Nice to know that I’m not the only one not losing my mind about pounding shakes immediately after the last rep of the last set.
To be honest, I’ve sort of ditched the whey and sugar pwo and tend to have a solid food meal with a lot starch, moderate protein, and lower dietary fat…
Hey Stu: Just asking but do you think you have gone through any kind of adaptation phase over the past few years that has allowed you to do that vs someone who hasnt been as smart and diligent as you (diet/training/supps/sleep)?
Ive been wondering this because certain people have posted stuff about IS and carb tolerance (and since fackto is here) cal tolerant? (basically they have discovered they are and tell other people not to worry about it).
So certain posters have now claimed (even shelby and nate) that they can handle more now, and the windows are only loosely important etc etc. But Im wondering if this is because people like you and the others have gone through an extended duration of cut cycles. That maybe through enough cut cycles you can reset. I saw Poliquin write one time that he believes someone could reset IR/IS in about 18 months.
Thanks
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Hey Stu: Just asking but do you think you have gone through any kind of adaptation phase over the past few years that has allowed you to do that vs someone who hasnt been as smart and diligent as you (diet/training/supps/sleep)?
Ive been wondering this because certain people have posted stuff about IS and carb tolerance (and since fackto is here) cal tolerant? (basically they have discovered they are and tell other people not to worry about it).
So certain posters have now claimed (even shelby and nate) that they can handle more now, and the windows are only loosely important etc etc. But Im wondering if this is because people like you and the others have gone through an extended duration of cut cycles. That maybe through enough cut cycles you can reset. I saw Poliquin write one time that he believes someone could reset IR/IS in about 18 months.
Thanks[/quote]
I’m confused, bro. You want me to answer or Stu or both. What’s the question exactly? Do you mean through training, cardio and other methods…one becomes more insulin sensitive and utilize starches better etc? I think so…for me one of the main reasons that I train is so I can eat large amounts of starches.
I don’t think I ever had any real drastic problem eating a lot of carbs or sugar or shit…When I was a kid, I dranka 2 liter of soda in a couple days usually and ate plenty of debbie snacks, mashed potatoes with butter and cream…and tons of other “bad” food. I was never ripped…but, I was far from fat. I feel that if I ever had any real problems with carbs and the like, I would have been a fat kid. When I did powerlifting, I ate mcdonalds and twinkies all the time (stupid) and the most fat I gained was approx. 16% bodyfat…maybe a bit higher. There’s pics on this forum of me from that era of my training.
When I became relatively lean…I now find that I don’t have any problems at all. I eat plenty of meals that have 100-200gs of carbs in one sitting…sometimes very late at night before bed.
More stu than you but Im down for anyones 2 cents really. Its just for curiosity.
I know Im sorry, even Nate had a tough time understanding what I was trying to say. Let me try and break it down.
For a while the hype/talk/discussion has been low carb for losing weight. There is the forever battle of low carb vs low cal for losing weight.
In recent times, esp last 5 months, there has been a big pitch for higher carb consumption. There have been tons of posts within this forum about source of carbs dont matter only quantity, everyone regardless of goal should consume carbs etc etc. So basically a lot of talk of low carb is the way to go - then the opposite- a lot of talk about having more carbs.
The people in particular that have been saying this (have more carbs) are those who are or have been extremely lean. PPl like Stu, Starnes, Nate, Lowery etc have competed and or run a low, sometimes very low, % of BF - and a couple of times. I am not hearing this pitch (*have carbs) from anyone who has rocked a low BF.
So, my question is for opinion sake that; would someone have to rock a low % of BF (for length (think Martin from leangains.com, or nate) or in cycles (starnes, Lowery) in order to reset amount and type of carbs toleration?
This leads me to believe that you have to reset in order to tolerate carbs. I think Poliquins reset is accurate or could be made accurate.
I had the opposite experience of yourself fackto. I was a heavy baby, lean as shit child/teen on the worst diet possible and suffered 100s of problems from it but was still lean, then lean young adult but once I found booze and fucked with my hormones a little all that changed. Body comp for me has been completely about hormones never, ever about cals. This may be genetic though.
Hopefully this kind of makes some sense. Thanks for the reponse.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
More stu than you but Im down for anyones 2 cents really. Its just for curiosity.
I know Im sorry, even Nate had a tough time understanding what I was trying to say. Let me try and break it down.
For a while the hype/talk/discussion has been low carb for losing weight. There is the forever battle of low carb vs low cal for losing weight.
In recent times, esp last 5 months, there has been a big pitch for higher carb consumption. There have been tons of posts within this forum about source of carbs dont matter only quantity, everyone regardless of goal should consume carbs etc etc. So basically a lot of talk of low carb is the way to go - then the opposite- a lot of talk about having more carbs.
The people in particular that have been saying this (have more carbs) are those who are or have been extremely lean. PPl like Stu, Starnes, Nate, Lowery etc have competed and or run a low, sometimes very low, % of BF - and a couple of times. I am not hearing this pitch (*have carbs) from anyone who has rocked a low BF.
So, my question is for opinion sake that; would someone have to rock a low % of BF (for length (think Martin from leangains.com, or nate) or in cycles (starnes, Lowery) in order to reset amount and type of carbs toleration?
This leads me to believe that you have to reset in order to tolerate carbs. I think Poliquins reset is accurate or could be made accurate.
I had the opposite experience of yourself fackto. I was a heavy baby, lean as shit child/teen on the worst diet possible and suffered 100s of problems from it but was still lean, then lean young adult but once I found booze and fucked with my hormones a little all that changed. Body comp for me has been completely about hormones never, ever about cals. This may be genetic though.
Hopefully this kind of makes some sense. Thanks for the reponse.[/quote]
I see what you are saying…and I understand how it can be overwhelming and confusing with information that directly conflicts. I think the logical thing to do though would be to take an approach somewhere in the middle, and then tweak things from there specific to you. For me this means that in order for me to lose body fat…my calories must be in deficit…but, that doesn’t mean I don’t adjust my macros depending on what I did that day (if I trained or not etc.) My personal opinion is that hormones do of course matter…but, how they affect fatloss tends to show more when you are already relatively lean…looking to get REALLY lean.
I don’t know who out there is even going to attempt to say that calories never matter just because someone eats very low carb…that simply doesn’t make sense from a physiological level.
To answer your specific question about “resetting” insulin sensitivity and using carbohydrates better…I feel like I began to be much more tolerant to large quantities of carbs after approx. 7-8 months of frequent fasting, very low calories, and tons of cardio…essentially starving myself down to 140lbs…a lot of lost muscle mass…but, I did became relatively lean. At that point…when I decided to train again and eat for real again…I seemed to put on ONLY quality weight with the use of lots of carbs on training days.
Stu should way in as he’s WAY more experienced than I…
I take all my protein and carbs pre and during mostly during and i dont have much after maybe just 50g whey I dont know about you guys but i cant eat anything for a while after working out
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
I take all my protein and carbs pre and during mostly during and i dont have much after maybe just 50g whey I dont know about you guys but i cant eat anything for a while after working out[/quote]
Damn, haha. I eat about 1200-1400kcal after training all the time.
Hey guys, sorry I didn’t get a chance to weigh in sooner,…
As far as an ‘adaptation phase’,… well, it’s not like I maintain a very lean physique year round. If you look at my usual ‘walking around’ weight vs my contest weight, there’s usually a 25-30 lb difference. Of course I will say that I had to really re-learn how to view carbohydrates when I started competing. Before that point, while I didn’t avoid them by any means, I was always aware of what I was eating.
I think Poliquin was the one who said that while you have essential amino acids and essential fatty acids, you have to EARN your carbs. So I had to (and still do!) actually increase the amount of carbs I was eating when I did my first contest prep. Each successive prep, I’ve actually increased the amounts I eat. Could this be my body better adpating, or is it just me getting a little more fearless in terms of pushing back against the mainstream media’s views.
The difficult part in trying to figure out if my physiology has indeed improved in how it handles macros is that each year you learn from the last, and make little changes. I keep playing around with my numbers, my cardio regimen, especially my supplements, so it’s not like anything is being held constant. Still, what I routinely hear when talking to other pros is that each year you compete, your body becomes more capable of achieving a leaner state.
This has always made sense to me, as even some of the top conditioned athletes (I always use Brian Whitacre as an example) weren’t sporting the level of near-fatfree-ness that they currently do back when they were amateurs. Again though, the only way you will ever know if the body itself adapting is the sole reason for the seemingly better handling of nutrients, is if someone followed the exact same contest prep year after year (and even then, if they start out at different weights from unrestricted offseason diets, it would skew it as well).
My final answer? I’d say that it’s a combination of the body improving how it handles everything (not just better insulin sensitivity), as well as getting smarter about your diet and how your individual body handles macros.
(Hope the answer you want is in there somewhere, I just get rolling sometimes -lol)
S