T Nation

Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

For the discussion of Alpha/Beta/Omega/Etc. interaction and classification.

How do men and women act/view themselves in accordance with social and sexual rank?

Let’s hear it Orion.

I am curious, wouldn’t most males due to their ego say they are alpha regardless of their actual social ranking?

[quote]StateOfPsychosis wrote:
I am curious, wouldn’t most males due to their ego say they are alpha regardless of their actual social ranking?[/quote]

I would say that a lot of omegas would claim to be sigmas, completely obblivious that sigmas chose to go alone whereas omegas are social rejects.

This weekend, I’m going to help coach my oldest son’s basket ball game on Saturday, take my daughter to a friends birthday party and watch my other son play his first indoor soccer game. Sunday, I’ll probably go out to my elderly mom’s house and finish raking the leaves so that the city can haul them off. I might even take her out to lunch if I have time. Somewhere in there, I’ve got to make time for a couple gym workouts, acroyoga with my girlfriend, and some time at the range with my new Ruger 22/45.

Total omega.

<sadface.jpg>

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
For the discussion of Alpha/Beta/Omega/Etc. interaction and classification.

How do men and women act/view themselves in accordance with social and sexual rank?

Let’s hear it Orion. [/quote]

The terms alpha and beta that are used in the PUA community do indeed come out of the observation of animal hierarchies by biologists, because the much trolled and ridiculed Mystery incorporated evopsych from the getgo into his approaches.

I insist that he was/is a genius and that the people trying to piss on him are not fit to wash his fur hat or paint his fingernails black.

Anyhow, the alpha/beta dichotomy probably makes more sense for most people if it is seen as a lover/provider dichotomy.

If you look at our closest cousins, almost always the high ranking males have enormous reproduktive success whereas low ranking males can literally go fuck themselves because noone else will.

It seems that 80% of all women that ever existed had offspring, whereas only 40% of men did. That would mean that each man that had offspring got about 2 women, which is almost prima facie absurd because there most have been some that just barely made it whereas others were drowning in pussy.

Those would be the alphas, the men that are actively sought out by young fertile women so that they would have sex with them.

I would like to post an article of a sports agent that describes how women literally jump at his clients with their pussy first just to show how different the reality of those perceived super alphas is to those of mere mortals.

I will, if and when I find it.

Betas on the other hand are the provider types, they are basically natures back up plan. They get sex too, but only conditional sex, they must show committment, invest money, time, resources and whatnot.

They necessarily run into the problem that if their investement is no longer needed, the woman ejects from the relationship.

So, Mystery et al wanted to know how you could place yourself as an alpha in a females mind. Since her genetic programming cannot possibly know about money, or cars, or job titles it must be something else.

The answer was the infamous shit tests, which are always social dominance tests.

If you pass those and do not place yourself on the provider track voluntarily, she will put you into an alpha spot, because her instincts tell her to and even, or maybe especially, women who will make a provider type dance like a little monkey for months or even years before they have mediocre sex will practicaly spread their legs instantly if you can push her “omg,omg, sexworthy genes” buttons.

Except Orion, I hope you realize how retarded using a theory based on the social hierarchy of WOLVES is on HUMANS.

Even more so when that theory was subsequently debunked and disbanded - yes, the alpha/beta theory hasn’t been used with wolf packs since about the 80s if I remember correctly.

Evopysch is one of those fields that will never be respected because its so prone to personal bias and a lot of what the PUA community has done is bastardized evopysch by taking theories that they like the sound of and play into their power fantasy (after all, this is a community filled largely with guys who have been walking doormats or hermits for most of their lives) and you end up with a huge number of retards regurgitating the same bastardized evopysch theories over and over again until they believe it to be a universal truth, despite the fact that it was probably only ever a theory to begin with.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Except Orion, I hope you realize how retarded using a theory based on the social hierarchy of WOLVES is on HUMANS.

Even more so when that theory was subsequently debunked and disbanded - yes, the alpha/beta theory hasn’t been used with wolf packs since about the 80s if I remember correctly.

Evopysch is one of those fields that will never be respected because its so prone to personal bias and a lot of what the PUA community has done is bastardized evopysch by taking theories that they like the sound of and play into their power fantasy (after all, this is a community filled largely with guys who have been walking doormats or hermits for most of their lives) and you end up with a huge number of retards regurgitating the same bastardized evopysch theories over and over again until they believe it to be a universal truth, despite the fact that it was probably only ever a theory to begin with.[/quote]

Look at the behavior of chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas and reproductive success depending on social status.

Also, evopsych is as prone to personal bias as any soft science but less so than other areas because evopsych is more or less a paradigm to be used to formulate testable hypotheses and then, you know, test them.

That is as scientific as it gets.

Then, Sapolsky is right, evopsych tells a lot of just so stories, but if we take the theory of evolution seriously there must be just so stories if we believe that behavior is also subjected to evolutionary forces which I believe to be self evident.

Finally, yes, a large part of the people who got or get into this are hermits and doormats and no, most of them are not on a power trip where they want to slay one Victoria Secrets model after another, they just want a girlfriend and because they possess the humility to admit to be lacking in an area where most mens egos automatically go of the Richter scale if their proficiency is questioned, they deserve one too.

Ultimately, game has come a long way and has a lot to each to practically any man and if some insist that all those who paved the way with hard work, courage and lots and lots of rejection that they submitted themselves to over and over again are loser, personally, I do believe that any man who lacks the humility to be able to learn from us hermits, doormats, losers and social rejects is invited to move along, there is nothing to see here, good day to you Sir.

<---- Doormat, hermit, loser, balls of steel.

Bunch of shit.

Life can be simple, I don’t need complicated theories of social interaction to get along with others; kids learn to get along with each other in kindergarten.

[quote]aeyogi wrote:
Bunch of shit.

Life can be simple, I don’t need complicated theories of social interaction to get along with others; kids learn to get along with each other in kindergarten.

[/quote]

I am glad for you that you slayed the poon like an NBA star from the age of 3 upwards, but unfortunately not all of us are gifted with your supernatural abilities.

Or your 12 inch dick.

Your wit, your charm, you devastingly handsome and yet masculine good looks and athletic ability, it must be hell to walk among us.

It would be nice of you if you could tolerate us mere mortals anyhow, because without us as a means of comparison your greatness could not fully be appreciated.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]aeyogi wrote:
Bunch of shit.

Life can be simple, I don’t need complicated theories of social interaction to get along with others; kids learn to get along with each other in kindergarten.

[/quote]

I am glad for you that you slayed the poon like an NBA star from the age of 3 upwards, but unfortunately not all of us are gifted with your supernatural abilities.

Or your 12 inch dick.

Your wit, your charm, you devastingly handsome and yet masculine good looks and athletic ability, it must be hell to walk among us.

It would be nice of you if you could tolerate us mere mortals anyhow, because without us as a means of comparison your greatness could not fully be appreciated. [/quote]

I seem to be a part of a majority, as only a minority seem to need PUA psychobabble.

[quote]aeyogi wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]aeyogi wrote:
Bunch of shit.

Life can be simple, I don’t need complicated theories of social interaction to get along with others; kids learn to get along with each other in kindergarten.

[/quote]

I am glad for you that you slayed the poon like an NBA star from the age of 3 upwards, but unfortunately not all of us are gifted with your supernatural abilities.

Or your 12 inch dick.

Your wit, your charm, you devastingly handsome and yet masculine good looks and athletic ability, it must be hell to walk among us.

It would be nice of you if you could tolerate us mere mortals anyhow, because without us as a means of comparison your greatness could not fully be appreciated. [/quote]

I seem to be a part of a majority, as only a minority seem to need PUA psychobabble.[/quote]

Well, only a minority seem to need that weight lifting chatter, that nutrition drivel, that sound financial strategy prattle and god forbid, that inane career gibberish.

Most people do not need that.

And they are doing so well, are they not?

I don’t like “evopsych”.
But not because it’s not true. It is, and Orion is mostly right here.

I don’t like it because i prefer “depth psychology”.

You can play with instincts and have them “practicaly spread their legs instantly”.
Or you can play with subconscious desires, and have them do … worst and more interesting things.

That’s pretty obvious actually : when you speak to archaic parts of the mind, you get quite primitive results.

I had sext this morning, yes with a woman this time.

I am WAY more Alpha then any of you ~

Anyhow, since anyone who is into self improvement obviously is a loser maybe I should adress those directly.

Dear loser, reject, doormat, socially clueless omega.

First, I am glad that you found this site, get off your ass and lift some goddamn weights. Even if you have resigned to a life of WOW and strangling your snake to internet porn you should do so anyway, at the very least you will have better stamina and a stronger grip.

Then, you might have come across comments that stomped all over the tiny little flame of hope that yes! you too! could learn to have at least some success with women, even though you are utterly out of shape, have the dress sense of an orc and the social skills of a class 4 hurricane.

I want you to know that what they say is not true. They are not better than you, they do not have supernatural abilities you could never aquire, they just got lucky and think they are the shit because of circumstances that in all likelyhood were entirely out of their control and there is no reason to take them seriously in any way shape or form.

In fact, you can spot an assclown from a mile away if he tries to appear bigger by putting you down and casually crushing your hopes and dreams.

Those are exactly the people you should never listen to, in fact, do the exact opposite of what they say you should and you will probably do alright.

No, I do not pretend what it is like to be in your shoes, because I basically had my act together but could get laid either unless I accidently stumbled into a pussy.

Once it clicked, I could.

Whereas “the game” might be just a game for most people, for you it is dead serious.

While for a lot of people it is about upgrading from 5s or 6s to 7-9s, for you, depending on how bad it really is, it might make the difference between 1 or 2s and 4-5s, with other words from women that no amount of alcohol can make desirable to women that are of healthy mind and body you might have a shot at a good life with.

A shot, no more, but that would mean that you are at the same level as most other men and would that not be something ?!?

But, dont sell yourself short, who knows how far you can really get if you lay down that pack of chips and honor your ancestors, that glorious bunch of killers, rapists, whoremongers and other men of ill repute who did not kick, claw, knive and slash their way through a few million years of hominid history just so that you could live a life of quiet desperation and die without ever having lived.

Make them proud by at least going under with your chin up, a curse on your lips and all cannons firing.

I suggest you start with David deAngelos “Deep Inner Game” which you can find in its entirety on Youtube.

If you need some encouragement, find the Roosh V forum, or SoSuave and you will find other guys who fail time and time again until they finally break through.

Godspeed.

[quote]kamui wrote:

You can play with instincts and have them “practicaly spread their legs instantly”.
Or you can play with subconscious desires, and have them do … worst and more interesting things.

[/quote]

Go on…

[quote]orion wrote:
Anyhow, since anyone who is into self improvement obviously is a loser maybe I should adress those directly.

Dear loser, reject, doormat, socially clueless omega.

First, I am glad that you found this site, get off your ass and lift some goddamn weights. Even if you have resigned to a life of WOW and strangling your snake to internet porn you should do so anyway, at the very least you will have better stamina and a stronger grip.

Then, you might have come across comments that stomped all over the tiny little flame of hope that yes! you too! could learn to have at least some success with women, even though you are utterly out of shape, have the dress sense of an orc and the social skills of a class 4 hurricane.

I want you to know that what they say is not true. They are not better than you, they do not have supernatural abilities you could never aquire, they just got lucky and think they are the shit because of circumstances that in all likelyhood were entirely out of their control and there is no reason to take them seriously in any way shape or form.

In fact, you can spot an assclown from a mile away if he tries to appear bigger by putting you down and casually crushing your hopes and dreams.

Those are exactly the people you should never listen to, in fact, do the exact opposite of what they say you should and you will probably do alright.

No, I do not pretend what it is like to be in your shoes, because I basically had my act together but could get laid either unless I accidently stumbled into a pussy.

Once it clicked, I could.

Whereas “the game” might be just a game for most people, for you it is dead serious.

While for a lot of people it is about upgrading from 5s or 6s to 7-9s, for you, depending on how bad it really is, it might make the difference between 1 or 2s and 4-5s, with other words from women that no amount of alcohol can make desirable to women that are of healthy mind and body you might have a shot at a good life with.

A shot, no more, but that would mean that you are at the same level as most other men and would that not be something ?!?

But, dont sell yourself short, who knows how far you can really get if you lay down that pack of chips and honor your ancestors, that glorious bunch of killers, rapists, whoremongers and other men of ill repute who did not kick, claw, knive and slash their way through a few million years of hominid history just so that you could live a life of quiet desperation and die without ever having lived.

Make them proud by at least going under with your chin up, a curse on your lips and all cannons firing.

I suggest you start with David deAngelos “Deep Inner Game” which you can find in its entirety on Youtube.

If you need some encouragement, find the Roosh V forum, or SoSuave and you will find other guys who fail time and time again until they finally break through.

Godspeed.
[/quote]

Thanks for this.

Have you Orion, or anyone else here, read much of Mark at “PostMasculine” ?

[quote]tmay11 wrote:

Have you Orion, or anyone else here, read much of Mark at “PostMasculine” ?[/quote]

No?

Should we?

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
Have you Orion, or anyone else here, read much of Mark at “PostMasculine” ?[/quote]

No?

Should we?[/quote]

Lol at speaking for the collective.

But no, I haven’t heard of him at all.

[quote]kamui wrote:
I don’t like “evopsych”.
But not because it’s not true. It is, and Orion is mostly right here.

I don’t like it because i prefer “depth psychology”.

You can play with instincts and have them “practicaly spread their legs instantly”.
Or you can play with subconscious desires, and have them do … worst and more interesting things.

That’s pretty obvious actually : when you speak to archaic parts of the mind, you get quite primitive results.

[/quote]

That is an interesting observation. I started into a relationship with a woman whom I knew casually within the same social circle through very basic means. She moved into an apartment not far from my house. She approached me and made an open invitation to me for “pizza, a movie, and stuff…” and since we were so close, I could stop by any time.

For a couple of days it kept re-occurring food, shelter, and “stuff”. Hmm. Didn’t take too many re-occurrences before I was knocking on her door with a box of condoms in my jacket pocket.

We certainly got down with some very primitive and visceral responses. Looking back on it, she might have played me.

[quote]aeyogi wrote:
Bunch of shit.

Life can be simple, I don’t need complicated theories of social interaction to get along with others; kids learn to get along with each other in kindergarten.

[/quote]

I agree that most of human behaviour can be witnessed and understood at a kindergarten level. However, if kindergarten didn’t teach you (at least in retrospect) that much of what we do is influenced by social hierarchies and the quest for status within the group you went to a very different kindergarten than I did.

If this or that theory helps some guys get a better handle on those dynamics, hey that’s cool.

Edited