So It Seems I'm a Snob


Pic of my poor mistreated pup…

look how miserable he looks…

I was joking, I’m sure he meant the OP.

[quote]Nards wrote:
The thing is even though it may seem counter-intuitive is dogs don’t respond well to punishment, especially physical.
They simply will learn faster when proper behavior is rewarded.[/quote]

My family has bred and worked cattle dogs and I can attest to this however I’ve found the most important thing is to deliberately treat them as inferiors. If a dog thinks he’s anything other than at the bottom of the pack you’ll have trouble with it. Especially working dogs. Working dogs want to work and don’t need rewarding. Different breeds are also more reward orientated. Labradors are VERY reward orientated. Most working dogs aren’t.

Also, hitting a dog is pointless and counterproductive. We’ve taken in abused dogs who cower and piss themselves everytime you raise your voice, hand or pick up something like a newspaper or stick. Some recovered, some never did.

[quote]Nards wrote:
I was joking, I’m sure he meant the OP.[/quote]

oh…

Well…

oh.

lol

[quote]Nards wrote:
The thing is even though it may seem counter-intuitive is dogs don’t respond well to punishment, especially physical.
They simply will learn faster when proper behavior is rewarded.[/quote]

In GENERAL, you are correct. However, “harsh” (a subjective term) physical corrections, when properly administered, are an accepted training methodology and have their place depending on the behavioral offense, and especially depending on the breed. You do not handle poor behavior (especially challenges to authority or other aggressive behavior) from a large molosser breed the same as you would handle a toy breed.

However, the correction given in the OP was not even described and we are therefore speculating. All we know is that his solid 230lbs objected to the handling of the dog and the ensuing advice to generally mind your own business applies in about 99% of all social contacts that do not involve you directly, UNLESS A CRIME IS BEING COMMITTED.

Wouldn’t you agree??

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Also, hitting a dog is pointless and counterproductive. We’ve taken in abused dogs who cower and piss themselves everytime you raise your voice, hand or pick up something like a newspaper or stick. Some recovered, some never did.[/quote]

Classical correlation/causation fallacy above.

The biggest problem with animal husbandry as it concerns dogs is the pet market, which perpetuates poorly bred animals and the biggest problem is not “physical beauty”, because that’s all most breeders breed for - the problem is one of poor nerves. And this has infected the “working dog” market too such that’s it difficult with some working breeds to get a specimen that will actually perform adequately .

The dogs you describe could have had bad nerves and been a nightmare for any owner hence, “some recovered, SOME NEVER DID”. I’ll say it again (and I have a long working dog background), PROPER physical corrections have their place, but “proper” is usually “sparingly” and “surgical”.

A proper physical correct to a working dog can be the difference between LIFE AND DEATH. For example, you don’t break your hunting dog from chasing cattle, and you will have a dead dog because some farmer WILL shoot your dog, and he’ll be in his legal rights to do so.

Some people confuse physical corrections with a training methodology itself as opposed to a tool in your toolbox if training methods. Some people use harsh physical corrections every time a dog does something objectionable, or doesn’t follow a command. Of course, this is incorrect.

Physical corrections (and there are a wide range of “physical corrections”, ranging from a sharp tug on the leash to restricting air by that same leash) are a tool in your training tool box. With some breeds, there is no room for error when it comes to some behaviors, and therefore “harsh” corrections have their place as well.

It was once said by a very famous and successful trainer that one good harsh correction (when necessary) is less cruel than a lifetime of “nagging” corrections and I agree.

You have described (to the extent your correlation fallacy was accurate) abuse, not proper training, and not proper physical corrections. A properly administered harsh physical correction is not abuse.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Pic of my poor mistreated pup…

look how miserable he looks… [/quote]

He looks miserable. I called HSUS bastard! LOL

He’s a good-looking dog :slight_smile:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Pic of my poor mistreated pup…

look how miserable he looks… [/quote]

He looks miserable. I called HSUS bastard! LOL

He’s a good-looking dog :)[/quote]

Thanks man, here is that killer in action again.

We bring him up to my mom’s and he doesn’t have the energy to keep up with her younger lab, so at the end of those weekends he sleeps for two days straight.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You do not handle poor behavior (especially challenges to authority or other aggressive behavior) from a large molosser breed the same as you would handle a toy breed.
[/quote]

This.

I don’t think you can treat bribe a dog that is looking to challenge you because he sees you as a pussy either. Particularly a 90lbs dog that you’ve seen take down a 200lbs man playing in the back yard.

I do play rough with my dog, even though I shouldn’t given his disposition, but I like to know how strong he is, and he tailors his roughness to the individual. He plays less rough with my son and wife but is all about rough housing with me. It’s also a good training tool, because irrelevant of how excited he is, “all done” means just that. He drops the toy and calms right down.

But yeah, you have to do what you have to do to make sure the dog sees you as a strong leader. We don’t let Ross on the furniture and when friends bring their dogs over and they go to jump on the chair and Ross lights them up, they learn pretty quick. There is value in letting a dog know it is misbehaving.

Let me first tell OP that calling yourself 230lbs of solid muscle is a little over the top.

But be serious about telling OP he should mind his own fucking business??

Is this our society? He saw a guy mistreating a pup and said he shouldn’t be doing that. Is it normal to ignore all those things? Should we walk past and don’t care about anything but ourselves?

We don’t know how he said it, but in my opinion he did the right thing. Also about not getting into the fight.

And to the guys telling it’s “just an animal”: it’s how you treat animals that shows what kind of person you are.

Lesser evolved civilizations tend to treat animals far worse than we do. I guess defending animal rights is a sign of an evolved people.

[quote]int3x0r wrote:
Let me first tell OP that calling yourself 230lbs of solid muscle is a little over the top.

But be serious about telling OP he should mind his own fucking business??

Is this our society? He saw a guy mistreating a pup and said he shouldn’t be doing that. Is it normal to ignore all those things? Should we walk past and don’t care about anything but ourselves?

We don’t know how he said it, but in my opinion he did the right thing. Also about not getting into the fight.

And to the guys telling it’s “just an animal”: it’s how you treat animals that shows what kind of person you are.

Lesser evolved civilizations tend to treat animals far worse than we do. I guess defending animal rights is a sign of an evolved people. [/quote]

Agreed. I have grown up with many different breeds of dog. The constant is always that they require discipline, and failure to assert yourself as the alpha in the relationship can ruin a dog’s potential to be a loyal companion and well-behaved member (albeit second-class member) of human society. I think we all have the right and even the duty to speak up when animals are being treated poorly, especially dogs.

Dogs have, for the most part, been bred into dependence upon humans. This puts us in a position to abuse them, which I find horrifying. Discipling your animal requires that you assert yourself physically. I won’t argue that. However, if the dog in question was not listening to its owner, and was then met with excessive punishment, I can only assume that what the owner is doing is not constructive and therefore little better than cruelty.

I’m glad someone had the decency to say something, and if you ask me, you should have been more persistant.
Worst case scenario: the sniveling little shit gets angry enough to hit you, and then you can hit him back. In front of his lady, no less.

[quote]int3x0r wrote:
Let me first tell OP that calling yourself 230lbs of solid muscle is a little over the top.

But be serious about telling OP he should mind his own fucking business??

Is this our society? He saw a guy mistreating a pup and said he shouldn’t be doing that. Is it normal to ignore all those things? Should we walk past and don’t care about anything but ourselves?

We don’t know how he said it, but in my opinion he did the right thing. Also about not getting into the fight.

And to the guys telling it’s “just an animal”: it’s how you treat animals that shows what kind of person you are.

Lesser evolved civilizations tend to treat animals far worse than we do. I guess defending animal rights is a sign of an evolved people. [/quote]

“handled it in a rough manner…” does NOT mean “abuse”. The OP didn’t give any more details than this, since it looks like he was more upset that he failed to be intimidating, than what was happening to the dog.

How much someone weighs is totally irrelevant to this situation. It was about his ego, not so much the dog’s welfare.

I could care less how big someone is if he was butting into MY business. I’d still tell him to move on.

I love dogs and most animals, but I know when it comes to disciplining dogs, that it’s necessary to be a little “rough” in order to for them to behave properly.

Anyone that’s has any real experience with dogs, KNOWS that BG and Beans are absolutely spot-on with their posts. Especially, BG.

[quote]int3x0r wrote:
Let me first tell OP that calling yourself 230lbs of solid muscle is a little over the top.

But be serious about telling OP he should mind his own fucking business??

Is this our society? He saw a guy mistreating a pup and said he shouldn’t be doing that. Is it normal to ignore all those things? Should we walk past and don’t care about anything but ourselves?

We don’t know how he said it, but in my opinion he did the right thing. Also about not getting into the fight.

And to the guys telling it’s “just an animal”: it’s how you treat animals that shows what kind of person you are.

Lesser evolved civilizations tend to treat animals far worse than we do. I guess defending animal rights is a sign of an evolved people. [/quote]

In order:

Yes, mind your own fucking business UNLESS A CRIME IS BEING COMMITTED;

The OP didn’t say “mistreating”. In fact, he did nothing to describe the treatment beyond a subjective comment about “rough”;

Your opinion is utterly uninformed, because none of us are informed about what actually happened, and we’re talking generalities here;

I’m not sure anyone, including myself, said anything resembling “it’s just an animal”. What we did say, is that animals are not human and it’s important not to treat a pet like a human - it causes behavioral problems. This is NOT disputable;

It’s also been said you can judge a civilization by the way it treats its prisoners. Given that we farm animals for slaughter, hunt animals, use them as clothing, I think we might want to use another measuring stick for our civilization; And…

It has not been established that OP was defending “animal rights”. We do know that he was defending the rights of every “230lbs of solid man rights everywhere” - those rights need to be defended, because those that inject that unnecessarily into a topic usually are attached to an inferiority complex. The apparent logic is that “you should be steer clear of me because I’m bigger than you”. This pretty much means OP has never been hit with a brick, stabbed, or shot - or seen anyone that has been hit with a brick, stabbed or shot :slight_smile:

OP sounds like a major doucher.

230 lbs. or not, don’t tell me how to handle my fucking dog.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
You sound like an idiot.

[/quote]

Who are you referring too?[/quote]

The OP.

[quote]imhungry wrote:
Anyone that’s has any real experience with dogs, KNOWS that BG and Beans are absolutely spot-on with their posts. Especially, BG.

[/quote]

I want to make it clear that before conversations with BG, and seeing and loving the dog I have, I would have thought BG and myself were fucking asshole loonys too…

I’m without a doubt the biggest bleeding heart, animal loving MF’er you’ll ever meet, but I’ll never disrespect a good mutt by not treating it like a dog again.

This thread is as dumb

Don’t tell strangers how to raise their animals or their kids. It’s that simple.

You’re only asking for trouble if you do, and it’s a wasted gesture because you aren’t going to change a damn thing.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]imhungry wrote:
Anyone that’s has any real experience with dogs, KNOWS that BG and Beans are absolutely spot-on with their posts. Especially, BG.

[/quote]

I want to make it clear that before conversations with BG, and seeing and loving the dog I have, I would have thought BG and myself were fucking asshole loonys too…

I’m without a doubt the biggest bleeding heart, animal loving MF’er you’ll ever meet, but I’ll never disrespect a good mutt by not treating it like a dog again.

[/quote]

Just curious as to what treating a dog as a dog entails, as this could mean many things, as we always here negative connotation with “being treated as a dog” such as “worked me like a dog” “why are you treating like a dog” and the such. Being the owner of 3 dogs and many dogs before that I consider myself an experienced dog owner with my own strong opinions. Treating a dog like a dog could let a person get away with a lot of what I consider abuse when using a blanket statement like that.

BG btw, someone did reply on this thread to the perceived mistreatment of the dog as “its just a dog” which again can play into the whole treat a dog like a dog statement.

Yeah, I like when people tell me a dog is just a dog. I did not know that.

Sounds like he had little man syndrome. Regardless, I think if you had made any threatening gestures or came at him in an aggressive way he would have ran like the hippie he is.