T Nation

Smoothest_criminal's Log: Low SHBG, High E2, High Free T


#83

Anyone?


#84

You can not reach steady state when you keep messing with the ai. Ai needs to reach steady state too.

I don’t know when you should dose it. It is possible youb actually crashed your e2. It happens all the time you think it’s high e2 symptoms but it’s low e2.


Anastrazole Timing when Dosing T EOD
#85

Thanks for the reply mate. I doubt I’ve crashed my e2. Only been taking the Ai for a week. Was noticing e2 symptoms before I started the Ai then had .25mg a week, now on .5mg per week. I haven’t really experienced any sudden or drastic change since starting the Ai, but I have noticed differences since upping the t dose. Gym workouts are better but as mentioned, having other symptoms.


#86

OK fellas, finally convinced a doc to check my thyroid, need some thoughts on my labs. He said its all fine but I could try 2 drop of lugol’s iodine per week to see if I notice an improvement.

Thoughts?

@systemlord
@KSman




#87

Thyroid supplements will increase TSH, numbers look good.


#88

That’s a relief the numbers look good. Do you think iodine is likely to make any difference?


#89

@systemlord do you think there could be any benefit taking iodine with these labs? Or not worth it? Doc has me on 12.5mg per week which seems low.


#90

Gents, new bloods in. Thoughts?

50mg Test e every 2 days IM
250iu HCG every alternate 2 days SQ
.25 Anastrozole every second T shot.

I’m thinking I’ll stop the iodine, and take .25 MG Anastrozole every T day, so every 2 days.

Hopefully my doc doesn’t try to reduce my T dose!

I was also taking 12.5mg iodine every day for a week or two leading up to this test.






#91

Trying to understand my results and optimise my protocol. I’ve tried 62.5mg e3d and t was too low. Looking at you @systemlord @bmbrady77 @highpull @KSman @physioLojik @charlie12 @alphagunner anyone?


#92

I cant speak to your protocol if you are using an AI. Not my area of knowledge. Good luck though.


#94

Fair enough, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts though. Guess I ng you’d suggest lowering dose and removing Ai? Problem is I’ve tried that and my t was too low.


#95

What is the issue with it being high? Are you having e2 symptoms?

If so, just keep lowering It until you don’t feel e2 issues. If it goes too low, then obviously that’s a problem. Are you overweight?


#96

Your SHBG is low and your protocol may be wrong for you, while my SHBG isn’t as low as yours I found I feel much better on an EOD and even better on a daily protocol as it help keep estrogen lower do to higher body fat percentage. Free E2 may be higher do to lower SHBG, daily dosing may be the only way to lower Free E2 when SHBG is so low.

When I started TRT my SHBG was in the mid 20’s and 50mg twice weekly decreased SHBG to 16, and an EOD protocol increased it to 22, back up to pre-TRT levels.

Total T is too high in my opinion, as is Free T which converts to estrogen.


#97

Yep, e2 symptoms like water weight, tired, emotional, fat gain etc. It’s taken this dose to get up to high T levels. Carrying a bit of extra padding, about 19% body fat.


#98

Interesting. I’m on 50mg EOD because my t was too low with 62.5mg e3d. Don’t love the idea of every day t shots because I’m going intramuscular, but maybe that’s what I need to do. Thoughts on Ai? I feel good other than the e2 symptoms so a bit scared of decreasing t dose.


#99

I do not have any experience with every other day dosing and I do not personally know anyone injecting more frequently than twice weekly.

Sounds like you are happy with your testosterone/hCG dosing. I think the free test level is fine. You’re experiencing high E2 side effects. I would say drop hCG before increasing anastrozole, but that is not an option for you. That leaves you with altering test dosing or anastrozole, or a bit of both. I think I would try 0.2mg at the time of each injection. That takes you from 0.5 to 0.8 every eight days.


#100

You are a hyper excreter or a hyper metabolizer and frequent injections is the name of the game, to keep levels elevated across the entire week an EOD dosing is needed.

I don’t hyper excrete and I’m low SHBG and I feel way better going from twice weekly to EOD injections. Your levels are likely swinging do to hypersecretion.

Try 35-40mg EOD and retest in 6 weeks and adjust dosage as needed, you’ll eventually hit your mark.


#101

I’m already on an EOD schedule (50mg). So you suggest sticking To EOD but lowering dose? Or going to every day?


#102

Correct, while your levels are officially high, you aren’t binding a lot of that testosterone, but you’re holding onto the estrogen produced from that testosterone you are excreting and it’s driving estrogen upwards.

When SHBG is low, free hormones are very high the lower SHBG goes, free testosterone and free estrogen. So a normal 25 pg/mL estrogen level while midrange, free estrogen will be way higher so the normal looking estrogen score can be deceiving.

If you compare a guys SHBG score of 25 and compare his free T and Free E2 with that of someone with an SHBG of 12, you will taker notice of the free T and Free E2 is way higher while having the same Total T score.

It common for low SHBG guys to have anxiety because Free E2 is so darn high. While you can test for Free E2, the correct ranges for Free E2 in men are an unknown.

Lowering your T dosage will lower Total T and that will lower estrogen and you should feel better, your SHBG can’t hold onto all that T anyway so no loss.

By our ranges your estrogen is 40.86 pg/mL, when my estrogen was 43, I felt terrible and I have less free hormones than you do. That’s very high for a guy with an SHBG of 14!

Your Free E2 must be insanely high, you may need estrogen near 20 on the lower end since SHBG is so low.

Stay away from excess carbs, alcohol, processed foods and eat veggies will help lower estrogen.


#103

@systemlord Mate, thank you for the detailed reply. I will seriously consider lowering dose and discuss with doc. What are your thoughts on Anastrozole? I suspect he will want me to just increase anastrazole as lower dose t in the past didn’t get my levels high enough. I’m concerned about long term health effects of low SHBG as I’ve read it can lead to diabetes, infertility and a few other nasty things. If that is a myth and it doesn’t mean negative long term health effects, I’d be happy doing what I’ve been doing as long as the Ai can control the e2.

I drink moderately on weekends, as well as the occasional weed vape/edible. Not sure how much of an effect that has on SHBG and e2 since its in moderation. Also remember reading a study somewhere saying that weed reduces e2, but that doesn’t sound right surely? I do eat lots of carbs especially around exercise but maybe I can try low carb. I have been trying to reduce processed foods. I’ve recently reintroduced meat into my life after almost my whole life eating pescatarian (vegetarian with fish and seafood). Feeling a lot better eating meat, but that’s another story altogether!