T Nation

Smoothest_criminal's Log: Low SHBG, High E2, High Free T


#43

I apologize for the confusion…I’m not trying to come across as advising against 50mgEOD. Just wanting to show you all of the options you have available to you. And wanting to illustrate that even though they look the same in theory, really they aren’t. I feel pretty stable at E3.5D, but my dose is not near as high as yours. The higher the dose, the bigger the peaks, and subsequently, the bigger the valleys. Also that can start screwing with your E2 levels. Again, I just wanted to show you the differences in all the options available to you and how they will differ as far as your T levels day to day.

At the end of the day, both are clearly better than the weekly or bi-weekly injections.

Again, sorry if I’m overcomplicating this. Just trying to be thorough! Lol


#44

I guess my main source of contention is that the half life of the test is 7-9 days. That averages 8 days, which is closer to 7 than it is to 10. That’s pretty much a clean break if you look at it from a weekly dose level rather than an E5D viewpoint. The 5 day thing confuses the whole issue imo. When you look at it from the standpoint of how the drug is going to release into your system, the 7 day split just makes more sense (to me anyway). When you factor in E5D, you lose consistency because the dose is fluctuating as compared to the half life. They are out of sync so to speak. I hope this makes sense?? Lol

That’s why I like the E3.5D schedule. Not having to poke myself ED, and it still breaks clean in sync with the half life of the drug.


#45

No need to apologise for anything mate, you’re doing me a favour! I’ve just gone from E3D and need to get my numbers higher, and I don’t want to have to inject daily, so I’m seeing this as my most appropriate option. If I had a multi use vial it’d would be easier, but with a non-sterile 1ml syringe that I need to split up, I want to avoid wastage and use it all.

Also, does low SHBG affect the half life?


#46

It won’t effect the half life of the drug or how it’s absorbed into your system. That will be reflected in your Total T.

SHBG is going to effect how much of that Total T is bound and how much is bioavailable to your system. This will be reflected in Free T.


#47

So with already high oestradiol levels, and changing to 50mg EOD, am I likely to have more oestradiol? Should I start with a very small dose of anastrazole? If so, what would be a good starting dose? I’d like to nip oestradiol in the bud before it becomes more of a problem, but want to avoid destroying my levels altogether. Since starting trt 6-7weeks ago, I’ve noticed some possible oestradiol issues: certain days my hands will be swollen and I also have moments where I’ll cry easily, seeing something sad on TV, or a sad song etc.


#48

If you start having high E2 symptoms, take the smallest dose of the AI that you can and see if the symptoms go away. And yes, I am predicting that you’re going to see a climb in E2 with a stronger protocol, especially if you were already experiencing them in the smaller dosages. Be careful with the AI man. As little as is absolutely necessary. I would not take it as a preventative, just as a tool to control symptoms.

One more thing about the symptoms…if you feel a little sensitive for a day that doesn’t mean you need to reach for the AI. If you have multiple days in a row like that then maybe. If your nipples start burning or itching then definitely reach for the AI. Don’t just go by emotional type sysmptons because it very well may not be E2 causing that. Look for the physical signs too.


#49

I’m thinking of changing to 125mg e5d like my doctor suggested. I’ve been on EOD for a Only like a bit over a week, and not loving it… Am I crazy for considering 125mg e5d?


#50

No you’re not crazy, but I would give the E3.5D method a try before I went to weekly protocols. I think you’re going to feel great E5D, for the first few days anyway. I think you’re going to start noticing a day or two of crashing before the next injection and I also feel like it’s going to be harder to control your E2 on that protocol.


#51

So What would be the 3 day equivalent of 125mg every 5 days?

Edit: I just realised you’ve already told me sorry!

“87.5mg (0.35cc) E3.5D (2 syringes with not quite enough left for the 3rd) - 2 injections for every 7-day period”

A concern I have is about the pre filled syringe and minimising risk of infection as there is no anti bacterial prevention in there. If I do e5d then I simply take half the solution out of the pre filled syringe into another syringe, inject it and put the cap back on the glass pre filled syringe until next dose. Currently I’m splitting a pre filled syringe into 5 separate syringes and storing them in fridge, the last one being 9 days later.


#52

I broke it out for you here…


#53

Yep sorry. See my edit on above post. It’s still early morning here lol


#54

Lol! I replied before you edited!!

Yeah that’s the tricky part for you in particular. Would be much easier to try different injection frequencies if you had a vial.

Can your doc rewrite your prescription to where you could split it up more evenly?


#55

The problem is there are only a few compounding pharmacies that can do test in vials. Otherwise it’s pre filled syringes only. I’m waiting to hear back about price and availability of the compounded vial test as they are only just starting it now due to the primoteston shortage. My doc is adamant that all of his patients do better on this bigger dose every 5 days and was hesitant about me breaking it up, even to every 3 days. When I mentioned my low SHBG he said not to pay too much attention to the theory.


#56

I can tell you I wouldn’t even do well on an every 3.5 days schedule, your doctor seems to want a cookie cutter approach to everything because it makes this easier for him instead of trying to figure out what’s best for each individual which can be very time consuming to figure out.


#57

Might just need some reassurance, but are these oestradiol levels crazy high or only “bad” if I get extreme symptoms. I’m concerned about the long term effects of high E2 on my health too.

Bloods taken a few weeks ago at around the 6 week mark after starting trt at 62.5mg Test E e3d IM, 250iu HCG e3d SQ (day before T). Since these bloods I’ve changed my protocol to 50mg Test E IM e2d and 250iu HCG e2d SQ (alternate day than T)

I’ve had a weird week. Started a new job and been extremely anxious about it so it’s hard to know if my symptoms are due to that/paranoid or E2. I’ve been very emotional, nothing crazy but getting teary watching sad things, listening to music etc. Been more anxious as usual, more tired at times, but then overall I’ve been having more energy, good libido and better mental clarity and outlook, resilience. I’ve put on a lot of weight, about 5kg over the last few weeks. Not sure if it’s water retention? Yesterday I was noticing my nipples were sensitive when things brushed up against them. Not sore, and again I might have been hyper aware or paranoid as I was so anxious.

I’m not sure if this is all in my head. I want to feel as good as possible and have optimal hormones. I’m considering taking a quarter of a 1mg Anastrazole pill to see if it changes anything but I’m afraid it might make me feel worse. I might try on the weekend, so if I end up feeling like crap it won’t matter so much.

Anyone feel like chiming in? I’ve spoken to some people who say anastrazole can make things worse and some who say it’s very low risk and usually works great.


#58

Your shbg has been consistently low.

So u changed your protocol why? Probably because your t was still low. With your very low shbg u need to focus on free t numbers. Actually That should be for everyone.

Everytime you change your protocol you will get those symptoms. I would not take an AI. And I also gained some weight at the beginning. It will come off once dialed in.

50 Eod seems too much. E2d sounds like same EOD. Whatever u do wait 8 week B4 labs this time. And do labs on trough each time so you can compare.

Also if not concerned for fertility you may try dropping hcg. Will bring down e2 and help with symptoms.


#59

Thanks bud, yeah doc wanted me to change to 125mg e5d to increase my test but I convinced him to let me do it split up more frequently due to my low SHBG. I am trying to preserve fertility.


#60

@_wilso84 tagging you just in case you were interested in following as you asked me in another thread :slight_smile:


#61

Sweet mate thanks for the heads up :+1:t3:


#62

@bmbrady77 I keep coming back to your post.

For the past week my nipples have been getting hard very often and extra sensitive, but no itching or burning. Can’t tell if there are any lumps. My understanding is this can happen when changing protocol/increasing T. I’m just not sure if this nipple hardening and sensitivity is an E2 symptom and if it’s worth using anastrazole for?

I’ve been feeling a bit more emotional and anxious this last week too. No crazy mood swings or crying, but I’ve had some panic attack symptoms and can easily get watery eyes if I watch/listen to something sad. I’ve started a new job, which always stuffs me around a bit with anxiety, and I’ve always been a bit of an emotional person so again not sure if e2 related.

I’m honestly afraid of using anastrazole, as I don’t know what the immediate and longer term effects will be and I can’t afford to throw my mental health down the toilet while I’ve just started a new job. However I keep debating with myself whether to try it.

I think I’m still sitting on the side of waiting it out - at least until 6 weeks after changing my protocol (end of Oct) or if things get worse. Or, does it sound like I have high E2 symptoms? I’ve read that over time the hormones usually balance out without an ai, but maybe my 50mg EOD, + HCG 250iu EOD is too much for that to happen?

Got any thoughts Brady, or anyone?