T Nation

Smoothest_criminal's Log: Low SHBG, High E2, High Free T


#22

Dude thanks so much for taking the time to write a detailed reply. I’ll definitely consider all of this and discuss with doc. I’ll update you guys in a few hours!


#23

Currently I’m injecting Glutes with 23g 1.5", shoulders and quads with 25g (experimenting with 1" and 5/8"). If I’m injecting any more frequently than what I am currently, I’d like to switch to subq to reduce pain and scarring. I’ve discussed this with doc in the past and he advised against, as injecting into fat can lead to higher aromatasing. I’ve read that that isn’t true though. However, that was in regards to injecting into belly fat. Is it generally OK to inject subq size needles into quads and shoulders instead?


#24

I don’t personally do subQ, but I don’t think I would go less than 25g IM. If I’m not mistaken, you usually use a 27g or 29g for subQ? I would be scared of breaking something that small, which would suck if it broke off in my leg!! LOL

I use 25g 1 inch and rotate just quads E3.5D without any issues. The quads have enough surface area to inject a little higher / lower every time so you you can basically rotate 6 to 8 sites using just the quads…
The one concern I would have on subQ, which is not an issue if my personal “no more than 50mg per” logic is followed, but larger doses could cause some pooling under the skin and create some issues there?


#25

I might sound like a pussy, but I hate the idea of frequent IM injections. Every time I inject into quads I get a dead leg for days. And I think about the scar tissue and damage to muscles after years of doing this 3-4 times a week.

I’ve had no issues with 23g. I suspect 25g 5/8" going into quads is in fact subq.

Can any tell me if there is a difference between subq at quad and shoulder sites vs belly fat? Would it be better in the quads and shoulders to reduce aromatase?


#26

I inject swallow IM into my quads using a 29 gauge insulin syringe. I couldn’t even stand the 25 gauge syringes, put away the harpoons please.

You cannot reduce aromatase by injection location, only by losing weight.

SQ for me was like all the injected testosterone converted straight over to estrogen.

I rotate injection sites between shoulders and outer quads.


#28

I’m confused @systemlord wouldn’t an insulin needle going into the quads be classed as subq?

You say location site doesn’t affect aromatase but then say subq for you converted all t into e?


#29

A 1/2 inch insulin syringe hits muscle for me, SQ in the belly fat feels radically different. All my fat is accumulated in the belly and back, legs and arms are skinny with decent muscle.


#30

That’s not pussy, that’s self preservation lol! Sounds like you keep hitting a nerve. I did that the first time on my left quad. What was weird was that I knew it happened because my muscle spasmed when I went in, but it didn’t hurt at all. The next day I was sore in my left knee, not crippling but noticeably sore. The day after that it moved to my left glute. Again nothing debilitating, but very noticeable. I must have just glanced off of a nerve. Now I just get a little sore in my left quad for a few days after that site, but never even can tell I did an injection on the right side. Kinda weird.


#31

OK, got an update. Doc appointment went well.

He’s giving me a script for Sustanon since primoteston is out of supply.

Getting thyroid tested on my next test.

Giving me a script for anastrazole only to be used if I experience breast symptoms - ?

He’s OK with me trialling different HCG doses/frequency to see what works best.

In regards to T, he said we want my t levels to be higher and that I’m not getting enough results with my current protocol of 62.5mg E3D, and wanted me to try 125mg E5D. He was very adamant that people have best results with this dose regardless of shbg. I managed to convince him to let me try smaller doses every 2 days to see if that works. If not I’ll go to 125mg E5D.

He doesn’t want me exceeding my total 5 day dose of 125mg.

I’d really appreciate some help working out the appropriate dose, as he didn’t advise, and my maths is terrible. As long as I’m not increasing my overall dose he’s happy for me to try. If I was dosing every day, it’d be 25mg ED = 125mg in 5 day period, but if I go to 50mg E2D, it goes to 150mg in a 5 day period.

Am I over thinking it? Any help??


#32

I think I’ve worked it out, 41.6mg EOD should work out to be 125mg within 5 days. Meaning I’d split my 1ml 250mg syringe into 6 syringes each measuring .16ml=41.6mg. Can anyone give input as to whether this would be appropriate?


#33

So he basically prescribing you 175mg per week.

125 E5D = 25mg ED = 175mg E7D (per week)

That’s a little high but if you stick with this dosage, you can do…(volumes based on 250mg/ml with one 1cc(1ml) syringe on hand)

  1. 87.5mg (0.35cc) E3.5D (2 syringes with not quite enough left for the 3rd) - 2 injections for every 7-day period

  2. 43.75mg (0.175cc) EOD (5 syringes with not quite enough left for the 6th) - 4 injections for every 7-day period.

  3. 25mg (0.1cc) ED (10 syringes) - 7 injections for every 7-day period

  4. 125mg E5D (0.5cc) (2 syringes, not really ideal but you could try) - 1 injection every 6th day counting the day of injection. Most confusing and hard to keep track!!

  5. 175mg E7D (0.7cc) (1 syringe and not quite enough left for a 2nd, not recommended) - 1 injection every 7-day period.

I would personally go with 2 or 3 to keep from spiking E2 if it were me.

Edit for clarity…If your syringes are graduated with 10 (0.1cc/ml) ticks, then just move the decimal for the cc volume listed 1 place to the right and fill that many ticks. If it is graduated with 100 (0.01cc/ml) ticks (most accurate), move the decimal 2 places to the right and fill that many ticks.

Here’s a pic of one of mine with 100 (0.01cc/ml) tick graduations.

Not trying to imply anything about your intelligence by adding this much detail, but you never know who else might be reading this! Lol


#34

@bmbrady77 thanks so much. I am still a bit confused/unsure. My T comes in a 1ml syringe (250mg T). I need to split it into equal syringes so I don’t have any leftover.

If I divide it into 5, I’d get 2ml 50mg doses.

First 5 day block = Monday 50mg, Tues HCG, Wed 50mg, Thursday HCG, Friday 50mg = 150mg total.

Second 5 day block would be Sat HCG, Sun 50mg, Monday HCG, Tuesday 50mg, Wed HCG = 100mg total.

= 250mg in ten days, the same as if I was dosing 125mg E5D

Would this not be the closest to 125mg within 5 days? Would also allow me to split up the syringe evenly.

I really appreciate your help. My brain struggles with this kind of thinking haha!


#35

FYI just confirmed with my local pharmacist that 50mg EOD is appropriate.


#36

No that’s not the quite same. That’s not quite how it works.

With the first five days you’ll get 150mg, then the second five days you’ll only get 100mg. Unless that goal is to dose large on week one and then taper down to 100mg E5D and level off there? If the goal is a steady stable dose, then you want to keep the injections as consistent as possible, the same week to week. The half life of sustanon is 7-9 days, very similar to Cyp from what I’m reading. You don’t want to do this roller coaster of 150mg-100mg-150mg-100mg… The name of the game in hormones is STABILITY.

With the going up and down week to week your realease times are going to be varied and so are your hormone levels. I don’t know why they break up dose periods into 5 days when a week consists of 7 days, and the half life of the drug they are prescribing is 7 days. Makes no sense at all!

To stay as true to the prescription and for the most consistency you would be better off at 25mg ED.

Here are some graphs to show you the difference…

25mgED

50mgEOD

Sound like the same but really it’s not as you can see.


#37

I get what you’re saying, but surely if I’m having the same dose (50mg) every other day, then that is almost as stable as it gets? I don’t see how it matters if one week has 4 doses and the next week has 3 because it’s a day on day off cycle, regardless of what day of the week it is…?


#38

Those charts were two weeks.

Here’s the same doses if you keep that up for 10 weeks.

50mgEOD

25mgED


#39

Both are going to going to be better than weekly or even every other week injections, that’s for sure.

Maybe I’m splitting hairs here? It just seems to me when you factor in the half life of the test, you’re going to get fluctuations every 2.5 days in the releasing of the test in your system of about 7-8mg difference (which is really not too crazy admittedly). I’m going with the more stable is better mentality.

Also, with the half life factored in, as you can see in the release charts, the 50mgEOD is going to give you days with higher release rates, spiking at 23mg or so, while the 25mgED keeps a stable 18mg or so across the board. What that means is that your T is going to fluctuate high on some days and lower on others…may not be enough to make a difference but maybe it will? Just have to experiment both ways and see how it works out for you.


#40

To be honest, BOTH of those look WAY better than doing a single 125mg injection E5D! Here’s how that would look over 10 weeks.


#41

Or even worse, 250mg E10D for 10 weeks!!


#42

I think I’m following, but it’s still better than 62.5mg every 3 days, and so on, right? The general consensus on here is closer the dose, more stable results and less negative side effects. Is the issue that 50mg EOD is too much? It’s the same over a 10 day period. I appreciate your help with this, however I’m a bit confused as to why you’re advising against 50mg EOD, where your own dose is E3.5D.