T Nation

Smith Machine

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
pudzianowski would not condone the smith machine…

i don’t either. im actually scared to use it. and really, you dont need a spot. for what, the bench press? use some dumbbells and ditch em. ask the guy next to you for a quick spot. squatting heavy? use the bars.

its garbage. straight garbage. [/quote]

A bodybuilder needs to do what works best for them, if free weights work best great, if they find that the smith machine works well then they should use that. Now a strongman competitor probably wouldn’t use a smith machine much if at all but strongman != bodybuilder.

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:

i see you are trying to protect your friend but it wasn’t anything against him. i just dont like it.
i have used it, and hated it. i cringe when i see someone using it to bench. my shoulders always felt uncomfortable from using it. i then read a couple articles discussing the smith machine, and discrediting it… and that further strengthened the implication that its not for me.
its like you’re a lawyer trying to defend the smith machine in court
[/quote]

LOL. Well then to continue…“ladies and gentlemen of the jury, allow me to present exhibit A, Trevor Smith (see pic). Trevor is seen here using gasp the Smith machine (insert Makavali’s prarie dog vid)…”

But seriously, if you had just said that you had tried the Smith and it always felt uncomfortable on your shoulders you would have gotten a very different response (at least from me).

As far as articles go, who really cares what someone else says about a particular exercise or piece of equipement (author or otherwise)? You’ve got to think for yourself, and in most cases actually trying out said exercise/equipment is the only way to know whether or not it is for you.

Your “scared” wording screamed of you just parroting what you had heard elsewhere, which was why I responded the way that I did.

The only thing I consistently use it for is really heavy shrugs (don’t know why but this seems to work best for me for traps), seated shoulder press and split squats. I really like doing single leg movements with it because of the control and ability to really focus on the muscle.

Sometimes, I find the engagement of “stabilizer” muscles to be a detriment to working the intended muscle group. It is good to work stabilizers and use BB/DB, but taking them out of the equation can be very beneficial, esp. if certain stabilizers are a limiting factor with certain poundages, etc. Just to be clear, I’m not “for” weak stabilizers but if a particular little ass muscle at a particular point in the ROM is holding you back, then that’s the tail wagging the dog.

The herd mentality on this board is ridiculous.

The smith machine has plenty of uses. Use a little logic when determining what lifts it will work for. If you are trying to use it for competition style bench where path is arched, it obviously isn’t the best choice. For things like seated behind the neck presses where the path is straight or your body can move some to accomodate, then it is great.

I said this in another thread and it is worth repeating here.

There are a lot of ways to get big. Taking options off the table because of some arbitray bullshit you heard on the internet may mean eliminating one of the options that works for you.

I don’t use it now, but that’s more due my exercise selection than anything else. Most of my heavy barbell movts are done in the power cage and BTN presses aren’t part of my routine right now. If I changed up my program to the point that a smith would be useful then I’d use it. Well, maybe not for back squats. But it does have some good uses.

I use the smith machine for JM presses. Doing them with free weights shreds the hell out of elbows, but for whatever reason doing them on the smith machine doesn’t. My bench goes up when I do these, so 1 point for the smith machine. :wink:

I had originally avoided it because I wanted the maximal recruitment of my stabilizer muscles. I never have a spotter and my lifts are pretty meager as is. I suppose I will use the smith to try and lift more weight.

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
I had originally avoided it because I wanted the maximal recruitment of my stabilizer muscles. I never have a spotter and my lifts are pretty meager as is. I suppose I will use the smith to try and lift more weight.[/quote]

Don’t use it because someone else is. Use it if it can actually be a useful part of your program.

Smith’s are good for isolating the quads and other isolation exercises as well. Dorian Yeats uses the Smith for Squats for that very reason. Personally, I would not use it exclusively for any muscle group, but it works great as an additional isolation movement.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:

i see you are trying to protect your friend but it wasn’t anything against him. i just dont like it.
i have used it, and hated it. i cringe when i see someone using it to bench. my shoulders always felt uncomfortable from using it. i then read a couple articles discussing the smith machine, and discrediting it… and that further strengthened the implication that its not for me.
its like you’re a lawyer trying to defend the smith machine in court

LOL. Well then to continue…“ladies and gentlemen of the jury, allow me to present exhibit A, Trevor Smith (see pic). Trevor is seen here using gasp the Smith machine (insert Makavali’s prarie dog vid)…”

But seriously, if you had just said that you had tried the Smith and it always felt uncomfortable on your shoulders you would have gotten a very different response (at least from me).

As far as articles go, who really cares what someone else says about a particular exercise or piece of equipement (author or otherwise)? You’ve got to think for yourself, and in most cases actually trying out said exercise/equipment is the only way to know whether or not it is for you.

Your “scared” wording screamed of you just parroting what you had heard elsewhere, which was why I responded the way that I did.[/quote]

LoL

im surprised you really aren’t a lawyer… or are you?

i read articles to improve or add to my philosophy of training. i would never condone or depreciate somethings value without knowing first hand. however, i would certainly find some information more ‘credible’ than others… such as the words of most of the T-Nation authors compared to lets say someone on this forum, no pun intended.

as i mentioned i have used the smith machine in the past and it never agreed with me, or my shoulders. in the words of a T-Nation author, i think its better off as a coat hanger or a pull up bar. but thats me. im sure tons of people have seen success with it.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
pudzianowski would not condone the smith machine…

Have you actually read/heard him say that he would recommend bodybuilders not use the Smith? Or are you just putting words in his mouth?

i don’t either. im actually scared to use it. and really, you dont need a spot. for what, the bench press? use some dumbbells and ditch em. ask the guy next to you for a quick spot. squatting heavy? use the bars.

Scared? Really? I could understand if you had used it and didn’t like it, but scared?

And there are indeed situations where you do need a spot (or Smith).

its garbage. straight garbage.

No, it’s not.

i see you are trying to protect your friend but it wasn’t anything against him. i just dont like it.
i have used it, and hated it. i cringe when i see someone using it to bench. my shoulders always felt uncomfortable from using it. i then read a couple articles discussing the smith machine, and discrediting it… and that further strengthened the implication that its not for me.
its like you’re a lawyer trying to defend the smith machine in court

Protecting a friend? WTF?

Dude - you define parrot.

How big are you? I mean do you have the size to back up your “experience”, or are you yet another 150 pound “expert” reader?

[/quote]

i just said the smith machine sucks and it will always suck in my book. for some reason that makes you angry and start spittin insults. and im a 95lbs GURU if you really wanna know.

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:

i see you are trying to protect your friend but it wasn’t anything against him. i just dont like it.
i have used it, and hated it. i cringe when i see someone using it to bench. my shoulders always felt uncomfortable from using it. i then read a couple articles discussing the smith machine, and discrediting it… and that further strengthened the implication that its not for me.
its like you’re a lawyer trying to defend the smith machine in court

LOL. Well then to continue…“ladies and gentlemen of the jury, allow me to present exhibit A, Trevor Smith (see pic). Trevor is seen here using gasp the Smith machine (insert Makavali’s prarie dog vid)…”

But seriously, if you had just said that you had tried the Smith and it always felt uncomfortable on your shoulders you would have gotten a very different response (at least from me).

As far as articles go, who really cares what someone else says about a particular exercise or piece of equipement (author or otherwise)? You’ve got to think for yourself, and in most cases actually trying out said exercise/equipment is the only way to know whether or not it is for you.

Your “scared” wording screamed of you just parroting what you had heard elsewhere, which was why I responded the way that I did.

LoL

im surprised you really aren’t a lawyer… or are you?

i read articles to improve or add to my philosophy of training. i would never condone or depreciate somethings value without knowing first hand. however, i would certainly find some information more ‘credible’ than others… such as the words of most of the T-Nation authors compared to lets say someone on this forum, no pun intended.

as i mentioned i have used the smith machine in the past and it never agreed with me, or my shoulders. in the words of a T-Nation author, i think its better off as a coat hanger or a pull up bar. but thats me. im sure tons of people have seen success with it. [/quote]

You said the Smith scares you. Now you say something different.

You offered really poor advice to someone who outweighs you by almost 80 pounds.

You don’t get big by adding to your philosophy.

Do you even really lift? I think you are much more happy just talking about it and throwing out crappy advice.

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:

i just said the smith machine sucks and it will always suck in my book. for some reason that makes you angry and start spittin insults. and im a 95lbs GURU if you really wanna know.
[/quote]

You’re the one implying I need someone to take up for me. (insulting)

You’re the one spewing out worthless advice. (insulting)

You are the one changing their story.

No one is angry. You are just an idiot.

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
as i mentioned i have used the smith machine in the past and it never agreed with me, or my shoulders. in the words of a T-Nation author, i think its better off as a coat hanger or a pull up bar. but thats me. im sure tons of people have seen success with it. [/quote]

What is ironic, is that had you done a little research on the author that wrote that article (Eric Cressey) you would find that he competes as a 165lb power lifter…

If that is your goal more power to ya.

I used to use one when I didn’t have proper freeweight equipment. I guess the one I used wasn’t very good though and didn’t have that slant that rainjack’s has. It always felt strange on my shoulders during benching, and I quickly outgrew the weight it had for squatting. I think the smith at my gym has a slant to it, maybe I’ll play around on it and see how much weight it has and if it still feels bad on my shoulders, but I’m inclined to believe freeweights are better. They certainly have been in my experience.

Rainjack, if you’re primarily using it for safety, why not just buy a power rack?

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

Rainjack, if you’re primarily using it for safety, why not just buy a power rack? [/quote]

Good question. I don’t just need safety pins at the bottom of s movement. I have no idea where I am going to fail. Sometimes it’s right at the top. Sometimes it’s halfway up.

I get a better ROM with the Smith, I can rack the weight at any point in the rep, and I just feel more confident getting under heavy weight in a Smith than I do in a power rack.

I couldn’t do Dogg Crapp without a Smith.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:

i see you are trying to protect your friend but it wasn’t anything against him. i just dont like it.
i have used it, and hated it. i cringe when i see someone using it to bench. my shoulders always felt uncomfortable from using it. i then read a couple articles discussing the smith machine, and discrediting it… and that further strengthened the implication that its not for me.
its like you’re a lawyer trying to defend the smith machine in court

LOL. Well then to continue…“ladies and gentlemen of the jury, allow me to present exhibit A, Trevor Smith (see pic). Trevor is seen here using gasp the Smith machine (insert Makavali’s prarie dog vid)…”

But seriously, if you had just said that you had tried the Smith and it always felt uncomfortable on your shoulders you would have gotten a very different response (at least from me).

As far as articles go, who really cares what someone else says about a particular exercise or piece of equipement (author or otherwise)? You’ve got to think for yourself, and in most cases actually trying out said exercise/equipment is the only way to know whether or not it is for you.

Your “scared” wording screamed of you just parroting what you had heard elsewhere, which was why I responded the way that I did.

LoL

im surprised you really aren’t a lawyer… or are you?

i read articles to improve or add to my philosophy of training. i would never condone or depreciate somethings value without knowing first hand. however, i would certainly find some information more ‘credible’ than others… such as the words of most of the T-Nation authors compared to lets say someone on this forum, no pun intended.

as i mentioned i have used the smith machine in the past and it never agreed with me, or my shoulders. in the words of a T-Nation author, i think its better off as a coat hanger or a pull up bar. but thats me. im sure tons of people have seen success with it.

You said the Smith scares you. Now you say something different.

You offered really poor advice to someone who outweighs you by almost 80 pounds.

You don’t get big by adding to your philosophy.

Do you even really lift? I think you are much more happy just talking about it and throwing out crappy advice. [/quote]

what advice have i given…???
and should i be sad someone outweighs me…???
what the fuck is your problem dude

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
what advice have i given…???
and should i be sad someone outweighs me…???
what the fuck is your problem dude
[/quote]

Read your posts in this thread, killer.

I have no problem. I told you exactly what I thought in my last post.

Maybe you should first try reading your own posts, then try reading the rest of them. Not making the basic effort to pay attention reflects very poorly on you and your skills as a PT.

[quote]MC sp3 wrote:

Don’t use it because someone else is. Use it if it can actually be a useful part of your program.[/quote]

Definitely. I was considering it for bench press, just to try it out. I always have this fear that 175 lbs of metal is going to smash my face (saw it happen in my gym 2 years ago, not fun for that dudes face) unless I have a spotter.

As a result I tend to use less weight. Hey, its worth a try … even if I like it I definitely will alternate between the free bench to avoid becoming too reliant on it. Thanks dude.

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
MC sp3 wrote:

Don’t use it because someone else is. Use it if it can actually be a useful part of your program.

Definitely. I was considering it for bench press, just to try it out. I always have this fear that 175 lbs of metal is going to smash my face (saw it happen in my gym 2 years ago, not fun for that dudes face) unless I have a spotter.

As a result I tend to use less weight. Hey, its worth a try … even if I like it I definitely will alternate between the free bench to avoid becoming too reliant on it. Thanks dude.[/quote]

If you bench with your eblows out like a wide grip bench it will be okay, but if you tuck your elbow in the smith machine isn’t the best choice for bench press. I like the smith machine for a lot of exercises you just have to choose ones that aren’t comprimised by the linear motion.