T Nation

Smarter Than The Average 19 Year Old

Bodz, I understand your points made in the last post regarding N-17E. However, I’ve been doing everything you said, honestly.

Training: I work harder than anyone I’ve seen my age in the gym. People always stare at me when I’m screaming very loud to get that last rep. They always look at me after, swetting bullets from a hard fought squat set, then limping over to the water fountain while sporting my T-rone shirt. I know what hard work is because I’ve been doing it for the past couple years. My first years of training were not too intense. I switch up my programs every 3 weeks. I’ve done the 12 week limping program, Luke Sauder Calf Routine, Poliquin’s Slow tempo arm routine, his gymnast back routine, and currently doing 12 week chest/back program. I also create my own programs factoring in TUT, reps, sets, rest, % of maximum, all based on individual goals. I feel I’ve learned a lot since learning these important elements.

Eating: I eat six to eight meals a day, everyday. I’ve been logging what I eat since I was 14 (now 19). I’ve done the Anabolic Diet, T-Dawg Diet, Get-Big Diet, and made my own diets based on individual goals. I always eat at least every 3 hours usually every 2 hours. My calories tend to range from 3000-5000 depending on if I’m cutting or bulking. I don’t drink alcohol at all. I drank a gallon of water a day, sometimes more. When I’m eating carbs, I get them from good sources. I have good post-workout shakes. Grow! with fat free cottage cheese and flax oil. Sometimes use grape juice for post-workout meal. When it comes to eating right, I’ve got it nailed.

Sleeping: I never get less than 6 hours of sleep. I usually get 8 hours, occasionally 9. I go to bed at the same time every night and wake up at the same time. I know that without adequate sleep, my body would not recover from my workouts. When using MD6, I make sure not to take it too late, otherwise it interferes with my sleep.

Supplements: I’ve used Biotest supplements for about 6 months now. I’ve had good success with Power Drive, MD6, and RiboseC as pre-workout stimulants. I’ve done 2 cycles of Androsol and Tribex. Average results gaining 3-4 lbm. I’ve also used Methoxy-7 which I think I had a lot of success with. One thing it says it does that I’ve noticed is improves the body’s ability to utilize oxygen. It also lowered my cholesterol levels. The only thing that bothers me is that I didn’t have a lot of success with Androsol. Possibly because I’m only 19. It makes me wonder how I would respond to N-17E.

Case in point, I’m not some stupid kid who just wants to cheat my way to be bigger. I’ve earned the 50 lbs. of lbm that I’ve gained in 5 years. I’m now 190 and I think wihout my smart way of living I would probably be 30 lbs. lighter. I might not have reached my genetic limit, but something tells me I have. My genes are tall and skinny. Unless I eat 5000 calories everyday I drop back to 180 because of my super fast metabolism. I sincerely doubt that I could add more than 10 lbs. of lbm without using something. I may be wrong though.

Now that you know I’m not a stupid 19 year old kid, do you think I should still not even consider the use of N-17E or any other pro-steroid for that matter?? Comments requested.

Wow…you sound very dedicated and I can see you’ve done your homework on everything as far as bodybuilding is concerned. Regarding the use of N-17, I think it’s doubtful that it will work any better then Androsol did for you…I know a couple of other 18 & 19 yr. old guys who used androsol and although they got some results, the results weren’t near as significant as the 30, 35, and 40 yr old guys I know using it. I think the problem is at that age when you take anything your body may be very sensitive and quickly cuts it’s own production of T…and the extra you’re taking is perhaps just replacing what your body was producing in the first place…so likely you’d need a lot more…But if you were to do that, then you run into problems with side effects etc. I think if you were to use N-17 the best way to use it would be to do what Bill Roberts was saying, just use it once a day in the morning…so you get that anabolic burst yet don’t sacrifice your own T levels.

Scott, I understand you completely. I went through all the same problems. At 19, even with supposed high androgen levels at your age, if your eating and training correctly the limiting factor is probably that you’ve reached an equillibrium point. I weigh about 220lbs now at 6’ and am the tallest and largest person in my family by far. If I try to put on weight by conventional means, it ends up being mostly fat and is more trouble than its worth. I too must eat a great deal just to maintain my weight, 5000-6000 Cal. If a person in your shoes feels they need something extra to move ahead and believes he is mature enough, he has every right to make that choice. If you or anyone else decides to take the plunge, I would hope they would be educated enough to know what they are getting into. I have many friends who took steroids at your age and they are all living healthy lives but I also have many friends who didn’t fully develop until 25! IMHO I don’t think the 2on/4off cycling is a bad idea for a person in your position but should consider a physical and a wide-range of blood tests to be done if they haven’t already. You never know what might show up! I think most of the verbal bashing going on right now is a complete waste of time and space. Besides, if someone really wanted to get their hands on AAS they would find a way. Who are they really going to harm but themselves?

I don’t know if age has anything to do with how well products like Androsol work. I get good results from the stuff and will buy it again, but my young training partners, age 18 and 20, get fantastic results. I’m talking about gaining 9 pounds in one cycle and keeping ALL of it. I used to think Androsol would work better for older guys, but the young guys seem to be getting better results than me! In the end, I think it all comes down to the individual, regardless of age.

On another note, if young guys aren’t able to buy products like N-17E or Androsol, they may turn to illegal and possibly fake or impure steroids instead. So I think I’m siding with the young bucks on this issue. They just better not abuse the privilege and fuck it up for the rest of us!

Scott, I know you are sitting by your computer just waiting for my reply…LOL. Anyway, seems you are getting some good responses. I agree to a certain degree. If you are doing all the things you are doing and not gaining anymore, then try it. Just remember, even with steroids or supplements we all reach that point where we just don’t grow anymore without MORE of whatever you are using. Of course, then you risk more side-effects. Just be careful about what you say. You said you don’t think you could gain another 10lbs without assistance. Once you have that 10, I can bet you will want more. I don’t know anyone who is satisfied with his body. But, what happens when after you have exhausted the N-17E and got your 10lbs and you stop adding weight. The next step is steroids, then more steroids. Not saying you will, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I don’t argue the fact that YOU have done your homework. My problem with MOST guys your age, is they all want it without the work. Good Luck and Good Work so far.

My 2 cents, hey I know your feeling of frustration, but at 19 I really doubt you’ve reached your limit. I am 23 and have had similar problems with a fast metabolism, but over the last 2 years I’ve noticed it slowing down and have been able to gain LBM on less calories. I found out my dad and 4 of his brothers (who are of my same height and build and do construction work) all started putting on weight in their early to mid 20’s. So it may be informative to observe your close relatives. I hope this helps. Peace

Good point LW. I gained weight from 16-18 years old and then stopped gaining. At 24 my metabolism changed as well and I started gaining again.

Can’t gain weight? BULLSHIT. You are not eating optimally. Your postworkout should be fast acting increase postworkout carbs to 150g of dextrose and lots of glutamine, +whey protein not fat. Bump up your protein to 2g per pound of bodyweight so yes close to 400g. If you’re a skinny carrot like bodytype your body is carb tolerant, so eat carbs at every meal. Train twice a day heavy in the morning 4-6sets of 2-6reps and lighter in the evening 10 sets of 8-12 reps; drink 2 of those shakes a day and the rest of your meals should be protein, carbs, fats. Build big poundages with your morning workouts you better start getting your deads in the 600’s and squats; do full squats instead of heavy half squats. Incorporate cleans. Can you even clean 315 (probably not, build up to it and then get right back and we will talk about genetiv (bullshit potential). In the evenings strive 4 time undertension higher reps typical bodybuilding.Try it for one month.

Other scott: I have three words for you. YOU ARE INSANE. Its funny how you said that I’m not eating optimally, yet I clearly indicate in the post that I am. Everything you said I should be doing I already am (with the exception of “lots” of glutamine). I told you, I’m eating 5000 calories and once I hit 190 I level out. Since I’m doing the Anabolic Diet, I’m consuming 333 grams of fat, 440 protein, and between 75-100 carbs. I’ll skip the cutting phase and switch to the Get-Big Diet. I’ll consume probably 100-150 grams of fat, 200-300 protein, and 400-500 carbs. That will include lots of dextrose for my post-workouts so chill. Your method of training TWICE a day might be good for someone who has nothing to do except lift and is using gear. However, I’m a college student who remains clean so that is not an option. By the way, if I was deadlifting 600, squatting 600, what would I be benching?? Like 400 lbs.? That would make me the strongest 19 year old in the world, no doubt. I’m only 190 lbs. bud. You think I should be doing three times my bodyweight on squats and deadlifts and twice my weight on bench. You’re crazy. Let’s be realistic here. Cleaning 315 is out of the question. That’s what I squat. You’re whole post is just ridiculous. Talk to me when you’re on full of juice and busy downsizing people who don’t. I’m out.

Here’s an argument I had that I thought was rather amusing…

I was at the gym with a friend who I sometimes go to the gym with (he doesn't lift with me because I do "crazy" exercises and "weird" programs...but thats a whole other rant). Anyway, he insists on doing an ab workout every day, which always consists of horrible looking side bends, crunches, and other assorted high rep exercises. I tried explaining to him that he at least take a day or two off sometime, he responded by saying something like "but I gotta get a 6 pack." I told him only diet would to the trick but he didn't buy it. Then another kid jumped into the conversation (this is the same kid I once argued about muscle turning to fat and vice versa). He claimed that you could train your abs every day because...this is one for the ages...sit ups are a "natural body movement." I nearly burst out laughing and asked him to explain what exactly this fabled "natural body movement" was. Apparently, sit ups and push ups are both natural body movements that you can do every day. Yet you can't bench everyday -- it isn't "natural" enough. I ended the conversation right there, I didn't even want to begin to argue with such logic.

EVERY 19 year old is smarter than the average! At 19, you’re still young enough to know everything. As you get older, you get dumber and dumber. Eventually, you’ll get as dumb as poor Socrates who said, “There is only one thing I know, and it is that I know nothing.” Hell, I’m only 24 and I can feel myself getting dumber by the day. As John Lennon said, “The more I see, the less I know for sure.”

Training twice a day on the sauce (I don’t think so). as a matter of fact all the juice heads in my gym that are on the sauce couldn’t even keep up with me, and they are so out of shape its ridiculous. You bitch and bitch I have never ever seen anyone who couldn’t gain muscle if they trained correctly. You need to concentrate on core strength, build your powercleans, deadlifts, squats 315 is horrible. When I was 17 playing high school football I didn’t eat half as much as you I could deadlift 550, squat 475 clean 275, and bench 315 as a junior, I never even used a protein drink and certainly not a steroid. What I did was build my poundages up slowly. Take a look a any division I football team every guy on there is muscular many don’t even eat 1g of protein per pound of LBM. I can hear you argument I was gifted actually I was not that strong as a freshman, or sophomore I just put in the time a dedication. BUild your BASE before you build your pyramid top. I would of done more the following year but I blew my knee out and dislocated my shoulder playing football.

I gotta agree with scott (not the original Scott) about putting some focus on getting strong. A few months ago I switched from traditional bodybuilding routines to powerlifting (just to get stronger). Then what I didn’t expect happened – I started getting bigger – especially my back, legs and triceps. Now I’ve incorporated powerlifting type movements into my usual routine (going for 1rep maxs) and this type of training has really helped. That and eating lots and lots.

Bah! Other scott: You seriously have to be kidding. Did you even read my last response to your post. I don’t have time to train twice a day and even if I did, I wouldn’t. If you honestly benched 315, squatted 475, deadlifted 550, and cleaned 275 when you’re 17 you must have been the strongest clean player in the state, maybe nation. On top of that, you claim that you weren’t even eating that much. Funny, how you fail to mention how much you weighed. Maybe I’d believe you if you said you were 275 or more lbs. I actually have benched 350 before surprisingly when I only weighed 180 lbs., but my squat has never been more than 335. My genetics are not very good for legs so I have to work twice as hard for them to grow. Enough with the bull crap. You are either 1) a genetic freak or 2) a very large dude who doesn’t know anything about weight training.

Scott, you forgot the other option besides genetic freak. Maybe scott is a fictitous character invented by Mike Mentzer to make volume trainers sound like morons.

Genetic freak hardly,strongest in the nation nope,not even at my school. those lifts aren’t even the records at my school. Well at the time the deadlift was # three and has since been brought down a couple notches. Here is how it went at my high school we got shirts which displayed what we lifted example panther 250 powerclean. Are shirts were as follows 200, 250,clean, 350, 400,450,squat, 260, 300bench, 400, 450deadlift, the 1000lb club. After the shirts we had the top ten records boards clean record was 315, the bottom record # 10 was 285, Squat record was 610, the bottom was 505, deadlift record was 585 the bottom was 500, bench record was 400 the bottom was 325. I came from a very predominant football school. We have had many pro players and collegiate players come out of there with a very strong tradition in powerfootball Ie wishbone offense and weightlifting. If you didn’t lift you couldn’t play nobody had alot of money, I never knew any players who took drugs, I love how people always have to attack someones acomplishments because they haven’t reached it themselves. Hundreds of kids at my school have lifted close to the numbers I lifted those shirts were the motivation to keep lifting and mark a place in history on the record boards. I’m sorry your school doesn’t have tradition in weightlifting. I am very real at that time I was 195 5’8" and could tackle like a mother. I ate but many days I skipped breakfast and never could afford protein supplements. I was in fact a hard gainer who busted my ass. I probably know more about training and reaching goals then you will ever dream of reaching. As a matter of fact I have my own training business that works with young highschool athletes particular football,and track! and I’m only 23 yrs old. I was only offering you advice , I encounter your problems from young kids all the time and I know what works for them because I was once there. Have you ever seen a powerlifting meet, I forgot his name but the guy from turkey weighing 130lbs snatching 400, I know he is not a genetic freak just a smart trainer. Good luck because you need it if you want to suceed.