[quote]marko_racic wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
both have their place.
S
Great thanks for the advice Stu. Real detailed explanation… add another post to your count bud.
[/quote]
Because putting active forum members somehow shows you know your shit. wow man your balls are HYOOGE
HYOOGE! oh shit did my post count just go up?
Where’s the post’s regarding fast and slow reps.
Go check out IRONRADIO’s episode from this week on itunes. This was their topic and you can get the opinions of some very knowledgeable people.
Both for the biggest gains. Basic physics: Fast, explosive movements; Force=mass* acceleration so with the same mass you can apply more force by using explosive movements. On the other hand applying a smaller force over time with slow and controlled movements will equal greater force over time.
I believe both are necessary to move the most amount of weight and therefore achieve the biggest gains
I do both. But what I’ve always like lifting faster, I just enjoy lifting. But when I’m concentrating on a bodypart for the summer or something I might do slow and controlled even if it’s only for one set. What I’ve found is it might be more the concentration that helps build the muscle than the actual movement. Sometimes when you lift explosive you focus on moving the weight vs the muscles used to move the weight. This goes towards the whole mind muscle connection.
Aside from the reasons everyone else has said to do both, doing things fast all the time can leave weak spots in your lift. For example, say you try to do a full range leg curl. For most people, those last few inches to curl are murder. But if you go fast every time, you never notice because the momentum of the weights carries them right through the full range without your muscles having to work during the last bit. But if you lift slow and controlled, the only thing that is going to get your legs all the way curled is if your muscles can contract at full strength for those last few inches too.
[quote]flyingstart wrote:
woah dude this is a huge can of worms you just opened
fast and explosive actions are more CNS intensive
slow and controlled (with 100% effort) for each repetition causes the most ‘strength’ gains as you get much more muscle stimulation
only doing slow and controlled or only doing fast + explosive is detrimental to your gains man
as coach thib explains (+ i think I bodybuilder) lifters generally dont do enough CNS intensive training and recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers and hence severely limiting strength + size gains etc etc
check out articles like this
its important to try and incorporate both aspects into your training
eg. for benching (as its a common one) for heavy weights + low reps you want as much MUSCLE stimulation as possible hence why its a slower movement
high reps + low sets + low weights and going full out crazy speed is very CNS intensive and activates your fast twitch etc etc necessary to pull big weights
BOTH ARE NECESSARY for max gains
form should be solid regardless [/quote]
Although it is true for a bodybuilding stand point of view that both are necessary, what you said about slow reps getting you stronger because of maximum muscle simulations is false.
OP, if the slow reps are working for you and you are interested only in putting on size then bu all means incorporate them, but if you are interested in getting as strong as possible with your size gains then the concentric portion must be as fast as possible. However that does not mean that you sacrifice form! you can lift fast with good form!
If I were you I would try and control the eccentric portions and really “feel” the muscles working on them, then accelerate through the concentric portions as fast as possible.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH my poor spleen.
[quote]flyingstart wrote:
woah dude this is a huge can of worms you just opened
fast and explosive actions are more CNS intensive
slow and controlled (with 100% effort) for each repetition causes the most ‘strength’ gains as you get much more muscle stimulation
only doing slow and controlled or only doing fast + explosive is detrimental to your gains man
as coach thib explains (+ i think I bodybuilder) lifters generally dont do enough CNS intensive training and recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers and hence severely limiting strength + size gains etc etc
check out articles like this
its important to try and incorporate both aspects into your training
eg. for benching (as its a common one) for heavy weights + low reps you want as much MUSCLE stimulation as possible hence why its a slower movement
high reps + low sets + low weights and going full out crazy speed is very CNS intensive and activates your fast twitch etc etc necessary to pull big weights
BOTH ARE NECESSARY for max gains
form should be solid regardless [/quote]
Hmmm…I’ve always lifted as much weight as I can - never exceeding 10 reps. Things like control, speed, and form seem to be dictated by the weight I’m using. For example, I explode off the bottom when squatting, but end up moving very slowly because I’m straining to stand up. Not my fault. Are you advocating lifting weights I can easily lift just to control my speed and my form, and to do higher reps? If I did that my muscles would say “Wow, you really lightened up! Thanks! Finally, I can relax and veg while you get fat and I shrink!”
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH my poor spleen. [/quote] Makes me afraid of writing articles… I mean, how can people read them and still get things so utterly wrong?
I think it depends a little but as far as free weights, explosive lifting seems to cause most DOMS. Can anybody deny this? If I do upright rows slowly, my traps won’t care the next day but if I start cheating and throw the weight up, they will be sore the next day much like doing high pulls or cleans…little difference really.
And the ROM of the traps is pretty tiny so it’s not like you’re going to miss much by throwing the weight up fast. This would go for all free weight back exercises and also raises of different sorts.
Doing curls with power clean technique however could be asking for injury however. And if you benched like this, your triceps might be missing out on the action and your elbows would be complaining after a while. Although this may not be an issue if you’re isolating the triceps elsewhere. If they are strong in that lift relative to shoulders and chest, they won’t be worked very well anyway.
There are degrees of speed. Some people consider a fast concentric the fastest they can say dumbell bench a given weight while still making sure they can feel their chest squeezing the weight up.
Others will just blast the weight up, maybe with a controlled eccentric, maybe without, but usually the movement is so fast it is impossible to “feel” the muscle, in this case chest, doing the work, at least concentrically.
Personally I have found that the second method leads to much better strength gains, but does very little for putting on size. Conversely, I find the first method to be quite good for putting on size, but quite poor for strength gains. In fact, it seems that each method is counterproductive to the other.
I’ve gone from benching with good form but just blasting the weight up to benching while trying to feel my chest do the work. Usually I am terrible at getting my chest to squeeze the weight up and, not being used to the TUT, fatigue very quickly. Then when I try to go back and do heavy, fast reps, I seem to have lost alot of explosiveness.
Do you feel your hamstrings squeezing the weight up on a powerclean? Probably not. You might mention a deadlift and say you feel your glutes there, but that is only because there is a dead start without the benefit of an eccentric, so you basically have to squeeze it up.
What I find is that it will take a long while before you can squeeze up the weight that you can blast up, however once you do, you will be alot bigger.
Look at olympic lifters, sure some of them are put together, but not all. I think it takes a pretty special athlete to pack on alot of muscle using explosive reps primarily.
I believe for most people, feeling the muscle you are trying to work is going to result in more size almost every time.
…AND speak with tremendous confidence after getting everything utterly wrong.
BTW C_C say hello to a fellow european (as of last week) 
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
tribunaldude wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH my poor spleen. Makes me afraid of writing articles… I mean, how can people read them and still get things so utterly wrong?
[/quote]
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
…AND speak with tremendous confidence after getting everything utterly wrong. [/quote] Ha, indeed. Not a rare occurrence either. [quote]
BTW C_C say hello to a fellow european (as of last week)
[/quote]
Hello initiate.
What brought you into the fold? You get more blondes with blue eyes and fake tits in the U.S., and I don’t think Europe has anything else to offer, really 
Since this is a useless thread, I feel better about desecrating it a bit more.
I moved to France (could be permanent) and live around 40 kms from Paris. Haven’t found a worthwhile gym yet though…
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
tribunaldude wrote:
…AND speak with tremendous confidence after getting everything utterly wrong. Ha, indeed. Not a rare occurrence either.
BTW C_C say hello to a fellow european (as of last week)
Hello initiate.
What brought you into the fold? You get more blondes with blue eyes and fake tits in the U.S., and I don’t think Europe has anything else to offer, really
[/quote]
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
tribunaldude wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH my poor spleen. Makes me afraid of writing articles… I mean, how can people read them and still get things so utterly wrong?
flyingstart wrote:
woah dude this is a huge can of worms you just opened
fast and explosive actions are more CNS intensive
slow and controlled (with 100% effort) for each repetition causes the most ‘strength’ gains as you get much more muscle stimulation
only doing slow and controlled or only doing fast + explosive is detrimental to your gains man
as Coach Thib explains (+ i think I,Bodybuilder) lifters generally dont do enough CNS intensive training and recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers and hence severely limiting strength + size gains etc etc
check out articles like this
its important to try and incorporate both aspects into your training
eg. for benching (as its a common one) for heavy weights + low reps you want as much MUSCLE stimulation as possible hence why its a slower movement
high reps + low sets + low weights and going full out crazy speed is very CNS intensive and activates your fast twitch etc etc necessary to pull big weights
BOTH ARE NECESSARY for max gains
form should be solid regardless
[/quote]
Shhhh guys, you should listen to him! Apparently you’re all envious of his knowledge!! runs to create flyinstart How do you train thread?
[quote]dankid wrote:
Go check out IRONRADIO’s episode from this week on itunes. This was their topic and you can get the opinions of some very knowledgeable people.[/quote]
those guys were a bunch of morons…
i’ve found that a fast concentric with a slow eccentric, throwing in a pause during the isometric phases of the lift have given me the best of both worlds…strength and size. i’ve never been a believer in a slow concentric. anyone i’ve ever seen lifting a weight slow has been lifting the pink dumbells:)
Fast lifting creates high peak tension, but the tension drops off due to momentum.
Slow lifting provides constant tension throughout the ROM, but the peak tension is lower.
I’ve been more successful with slow and controlled - just my anecdote.