T Nation

Sleep

Hi everyone,
I recently read in a bodybuilding magazine somewhere that only 33% of your growth happens while you sleep, and only in the first 2 hours of sleep. I don’t know if that is crap or not. I thought 100% of your growth happens during sleep, and you need about 8 hours of good deep sleep for it to be effective. Which one’s correct?

Thanks.

Sleep happens in 90-minute cycles. You need 7.5 hours of sleep within a 24-hour cycle, 1.5h more or less. You can sleep four times a day, so long as the time spent sleeping is divisible by 90. For example, sleep 3h in the afternoon, 4.5h at night.

Harkonnen - While I’ve heard the same thing and would love to believe it, I just can’t buy it without some proof. Do you know of the studies that support this or where I could find more info.

Studies? No. However, once I started waking up after 3 hours to take my night-feed shake, then sleeping 3 more hours, instead of a 4h-4h split, I notice I find it much easier to awaken. Experimental data at least in my case coincides with the theory.

There are 4 stages +REM to each cycle in sleep
to make it simple
stage 1 is when you fall unconscious
stage 2 is when you start twitching
stage 3 and 4 are deep sleep where you have most of the hormonal release
then comes REM – when you dream
The length of each cycle is ~90 min as was said, but the distribution of sleep stage times and repetition is different. It does not go 1,2,3,4,rem, but rather 12343rem – if I remember correctly. Splitting 8 hours into several sessions of 2,3, or 4 is not equivalent to 8 full hours, because your body will start each cycle over again and your hormonal release pattern and other changes will not be fully realized. There is a ton of info if you just search for sleep stages or sleep cycle online.

so is the night feeding doing more harm than good?

According to recent research, protein synthesis stays above basal levels for 24-36 hours after a training session, so this suggests that growth happens within this time frame. Sleep is off extreme value for CNS and endocrine system recovery so it will affect growth for sure.

How do they figured out the 33% figure? How did they figure out that this figure was applicable and accurate for everybody?

I always say: "be wary of guys quoting universal proportions and making generalisation, they are wrong in 90% of the cases" :-) (Yes, that was a joke, this Canadian has a sense of humor!)

My guess is that the 33% comes from 8 hours sleep divided by 24 hours per day =33%. Very technical in-depth study by the sounds of it! I also doubt strongly that it’s anywhere near 100%.

Yeah, that’s what I figured.

I wouldn’t say 100% either, but it’s much more than 33% for sure.

Have u guys got any techniques for achieving deep sleep fast, at will, whenever u want?
Sometimes I lie in bed waiting to fall asleep, but I just don’t.

Sex …

Sometimes a 15-20 minutes hot shower will do me a world of good.

ditto for sex, or it not poss just knock one off yourself, obviously alternating hands to avoid a muscular imbalance.

there is atleast one stage of sleep deeper than REM

a bottle of jim beam to the dome will knock you out fast.

well with all that being said, would’t the ideal time to work out be 2-3 hours before bed time? take some surge right after and eat a fat steak dinner before bed?

what about taking a sleeping aid like unisom?
my neighbor took it becouse he worked grave yard, and he said he got a full 8hrs seep during the day with it.

I got mixed results with Unisom. One night it worked great, the other it didn’t do a thing to help me sleep. My girlfriend has used it and said that it worked great for her. I believe that Unisom can help you relax, which will indirectly help you go to sleep. We shouldn’t underestimate the placebo effect either.

Experts recommend not using sleeping pills for long periods of time because it can interfere with REM sleep. But can be great for the short term to break a habit of waking fully when you should be sleeping.

I have read that people tend to follow a certain cycle when it comes to falling asleep. That for most people it is easiest to fall asleep during certain times of the day. And if you miss this time then it is harder to fall asleep until the next ?good time? comes up. Unfortunately I don?t know how often this ?window of good sleep opportunity? occurs or how often. I do think it is regular though. Try checking how awake you feel throughout the day, or just try going to sleep 15 minutes earlier each day until you are 1 hour early, and then go in the opposite direction to an hour later. When you find the right time, try to stick to it .

Other techniques I know are self-hypnosis, or when you go to bed, talk to yourself inside your head, and gradually slow down your internal dialogue. Sounds weird, but it seems to work.

talk to your doctor about Ambien…ahhh, it’s so great…best pharmaceutical to ever hit the market…well, until I get impotency problems.