Sleep Problems From Overtraining?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]n3wb wrote:
Jason B wrote:
You aren’t overtraining…It’s a myth…

if over training is a myth I should be the worlds strongest man right now

as far as how many calories I eat the day I had realy realy shity sleap I ate

BREAKFAST
huge bole pasta+mushrooms
no explode

deadlift
biceps

LUNCH
huge bole pasta+mushrooms

PRE WORKOUT
huge bole pasta
3 chicken breast+onions+mushrooms

shoulders

DINNER
huge bole pasta
3 scoop whey
3 tbs peanutbutter
2 cups milk

not alot of protein but plenty of calories @ carbs[/quote]

B-O-W-L

not

B-o-l-e.

(sorry, but I’m an English teacher and misspelled words make me go crazy). :wink:

22

When are you lifting?

If I hit the weights any later than 8:00, there is no chance of a good nights sleep.

Turkey sammiches at about 10:00 do help though.
Heavy on the turkey.

23

Its not a question of over training

because if its “real” then Im doing it

24

Having done my “spelling rant,” please allow me to try to be helpful.

Now, I do believe in taking a break every few weeks to allow for recovery…and I have noticed that if I don’t do so, my lifts decrease and my energy plummets.

And I always feel that I don’t have enough sleep…even if I sleep 8-9 hours/day.

So I do believe in overtraining and that (as CW put it in an article a while back) overtraining will keep you up at night.

But I do believe we can stave off overtraining a little longer with proper nutrition. This means that we take in adequate protein and fats.

Do you know what your total caloric intake is? After all, a “huge bowl of ‘x’” may not be as huge as you think.

Personally, I was sure surprised when I actually started to count calories…I was getting about 1000 cal/day (or more) less than I needed.

AD

25

[quote]Jason B wrote:
You aren’t overtraining…It’s a myth…
[/quote]

are you saying that it is impossible to overtrain. If i made you do TBT workouts and you work out seven days a week with twenty plus sets per workout and each set you went to failure and you only take in ur RMR in calories and only sleep three hours a night and you have a stressful 8 to 5 job…

that you could work out like this and you wont overtrain in like two weeks? Im sorry overtraining is not a myth. You CAN work in high volume but many things have to be taken into consideration. but overtraining is not a myth

26

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Jason B wrote:
You aren’t overtraining…It’s a myth…

are you saying that it is impossible to overtrain. If i made you do TBT workouts and you work out seven days a week with twenty plus sets per workout and each set you went to failure and you only take in ur RMR in calories and only sleep three hours a night and you have a stressful 8 to 5 job…

that you could work out like this and you wont overtrain in like two weeks? Im sorry overtraining is not a myth. You CAN work in high volume but many things have to be taken into consideration. but overtraining is not a myth[/quote]

Just stating my opinion. I think it is a bunch of crap and don’t believe in it at all. Period. I worked 45-50 hour weeks while getting a masters degree, hitting the gym 6 times a week, with about 5 hours a night sleep and a junkfood diet for 2 years and never once felt “overtrained”.

I made gains. I guess I don’t choose to impose that as a limit in my life. Others who want to, please feel free!

27

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Jason B wrote:

<<< Olympic athletes train for 6-8 hours a day, and that is probably their light day, so obviously overtraining isn’t a concern for them. Yet, some around here think their 4-5 60-75 minute weightlifting sessions a week is causing “overtraining”. It would actually be laughable if it weren’t so stupid…

The olympic games encompass numerous types of athletic events some of which lend themselves to 6-8 hour daily training sessions (ex. figure skating) and some that do not (ex. weight lifting) Show me an olympic lifter that trains 6-8 hours a day and we’ll be talking apples to apples.[/quote]

If you believe in overtraining then why can’t a figure skater overtrain? I guess 2-3 hours of triple axels at full speed is so much easier than your leg day??

I would put the work capacity of any of those 110 pound girls against any guy on this board any day and 95% of you would get your asses handed to you.

28

[quote]Jason B wrote:

Just stating my opinion. I think it is a bunch of crap and don’t believe in it at all. Period. I worked 45-50 hour weeks while getting a masters degree, hitting the gym 6 times a week, with about 5 hours a night sleep and a junkfood diet for 2 years and never once felt “overtrained”.

I made gains. I guess I don’t choose to impose that as a limit in my life. Others who want to, please feel free![/quote]

So, doing everything you were doing, but if you added another 2 hours of training everyday, and 2 hours less sleep, and if you didn’t change your eating habits, would you still have not been overtraining?

And if not, then why didn’t you do that and make even more gains?

My point is, just because you haven’t experienced it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I agree that too many people use it too often though.

Also, if someone is used to a certain amount of training/stress, then they can handle more without over training. If a guy is used to sitting still all day, then starts trying to train like Ronnie Coleman, he might feel over trained sooner than a guy who’s in shape would.

29

I don’t believe that the argument against overtraining by refering to an olympic athlete holds water. Saying that an average person’s exersise limits are the same as athletes who train for 6 to 8 hours a day is like saying that an average person could just go out and run a marathon.

The human body adapts over time to it’s environment. I do agree that most people could adapt to working out 6 to 8 hours a day, but it won’t happen in a matter of weeks or months. That kind of adaptation would probably take years, not to mention that nutrition must be spot on.

Everyone has limits to how much their body can take based on several variables. Some people are just able to take more than others before hitting the wall.

30

[quote]Jason B wrote:
<<< If you believe in overtraining then why can’t a figure skater overtrain? I guess 2-3 hours of triple axels at full speed is so much easier than your leg day??

I would put the work capacity of any of those 110 pound girls against any guy on this board any day and 95% of you would get your asses handed to you.
[/quote]

I have said and will say again that overtraining is an overused term that’s often thrown around by guys trying to make excuses for themselves. That, however, does not mean that there is no limit to what a human being can inflict upon themselves without deleterious effects.

To compare figure skating to serious weight training is so out there it defies appropriate response. I’m taking nothing away from those who excel in their discipline, but the two are not even nominally comparable. They are worlds apart in every conceivable way. If you can’t understand that I don’t know what to tell you.

i want to see you post right here that any, even superhuman gear stacked person can train with weights with anything like meaningful effort for 6-8 hours on even any one day. I’ll check back.

31

[quote]Jason B wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Jason B wrote:
You aren’t overtraining…It’s a myth…

are you saying that it is impossible to overtrain. If i made you do TBT workouts and you work out seven days a week with twenty plus sets per workout and each set you went to failure and you only take in ur RMR in calories and only sleep three hours a night and you have a stressful 8 to 5 job…

that you could work out like this and you wont overtrain in like two weeks? Im sorry overtraining is not a myth. You CAN work in high volume but many things have to be taken into consideration. but overtraining is not a myth

Just stating my opinion. I think it is a bunch of crap and don’t believe in it at all. Period. I worked 45-50 hour weeks while getting a masters degree, hitting the gym 6 times a week, with about 5 hours a night sleep and a junkfood diet for 2 years and never once felt “overtrained”.

I made gains. I guess I don’t choose to impose that as a limit in my life. Others who want to, please feel free![/quote]

Oh so like my opinion is that I should be an nfl player. Does that make me an nfl player? Or are you like that agency that appeared in the news lately. They vehemently deny that the holocaust ever happened and that those concentration camps where jews were cooked alive never existed. That is their opinion. Does it make it a fact. No.

So you are saying that there are absolutely no limits to human adaptation and recovery? right try your thesis. cut off ur finger and see if it grows back. Oh and if it doesn’t then maybe you need more frequency so your body can adapt right? start cutting off another finger every day and see if ur body adapts to this new stimuli and grows em back.

Now I do think that the body can handle this just like all those olympic people u say but it takes time, proper recovery and nutrition. Also those olympic athletes are the crem de la crem of human genetics. i mean come on they are in the friggin olympics. they have trained for their event for years and years in order to get to the top. Of course they can handle those loads.

PLus all that frequency is movement specific. They put all that super frequency on the movement they are doing. (sorry i don’t know enough about the olympics to elaborate more eloquently)

Also, just because something works for you, do you think everyone else should do it too? I mean every single human on the face of the planet is different than the next. maybe it worked for you just like some people respond better to TBT than split routines. Don’t tell other people to do what you do because it worked for you. tell them to do that because it will work for THEM.

Im done ranting. L8rz

32

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Jason B wrote:
<<< If you believe in overtraining then why can’t a figure skater overtrain? I guess 2-3 hours of triple axels at full speed is so much easier than your leg day??

I would put the work capacity of any of those 110 pound girls against any guy on this board any day and 95% of you would get your asses handed to you.

I have said and will say again that overtraining is an overused term that’s often thrown around by guys trying to make excuses for themselves. That, however, does not mean that there is no limit to what a human being can inflict upon themselves without deleterious effects.

To compare figure skating to serious weight training is so out there it defies appropriate response. I’m taking nothing away from those who excel in their discipline, but the two are not even nominally comparable. They are worlds apart in every conceivable way. If you can’t understand that I don’t know what to tell you.

i want to see you post right here that any, even superhuman gear stacked person can train with weights with anything like meaningful effort for 6-8 hours on even any one day. I’ll check back.[/quote]

I bet some of the East Germans did it…

33

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Also those olympic athletes are the crem de la crem of human genetics. i mean come on they are in the friggin olympics. they have trained for their event for years and years in order to get to the top. Of course they can handle those loads. [/quote]

Ah, now it’s genetics. Maybe the fact that they are willing to work 100 times harder than anyone else is what got them there…They were willing to put the 6-8 hour days in…Maybe that is what makes them the best, not that because they are the best is what allows them to do that…

34

Yeah ive heard of that. I even read the article where they describe the high volume they use. I also noticed a quote it went something like “training like this takes many years though. it is not for pussys” not to mention “supplemental help”

35

My whole point here is that people are just way to quick jumping on the overtraining bandwagon or the too much volume bandwagon. 19 year old kids working out 45-60 minutes a week 4-5 days a week regardless of training style, diet, and sleep are in no real danger of overtraining, but so many of them think they are.

It is just frustrating for me to see. So am I playing it out to an extreme? Probably. But I am just trying to get my point across.

36

[quote]Jason B wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Also those olympic athletes are the crem de la crem of human genetics. i mean come on they are in the friggin olympics. they have trained for their event for years and years in order to get to the top. Of course they can handle those loads.

Ah, now it’s genetics. Maybe the fact that they are willing to work 100 times harder than anyone else is what got them there…They were willing to put the 6-8 hour days in…Maybe that is what makes them the best, not that because they are the best is what allows them to do that…
[/quote]

I notice you agreed with the rest of my rant. about the limit of human recovery…Isn’t that what this argument is about. u just found a part of my rant that you could dismantle instead of thinking about the rest.

you don’t even acknowledge any other view. u are very closed minded. u are like the romans thinking. this is what they did. They noticed that after every rain that there were always a ton of flys and mosquitos and such that came out. They put two observations together and concluded that when water mixed with mud it created flys and mosquitos.

Is this a fact. No. They took two observations and made a crazy conclusion.