Slavery Good?

[quote]Vyapada wrote:
In the short snapshot of history since the introduction of slavery till now, it is certainly possible that there are financial benefits for the ancestors of the victims of slavery.
This doesn’t mean that slavery was good or justifiable.
[/quote]

I’d like you to define “short snapshot of history”. Slavery has been going on since the beginning of time, and is still happening today. Please tell me where “short snapshot of history” comes into play.

Why is the U.S. the only country being prosecuted for having slaves? In my opinion, it’s just another Hate America talking point, while ignoring the entire economic engine of European countries of the 3 or 4 centuries prior to the Emancipation Proclamation.

While very few folks will agree with the thread author’s premise, no one has responded with a logical, proof based rebuttal. Is everyone brainwashed, and void of a valid response?

Just because you believe it is wrong is not a valid defense.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Just because you believe it is wrong is not a valid defense.

[/quote]

A defense is needed? Most of the black population today in America is about as “purely African” as most whites are “purely German, Irish or Polish”. To make a claim that blacks today are better off is like saying that Jews should be thankful for the Holocaust because being Jewish is no longer a life threatening state of being and many are better off here than in early 20th century Europe. I don’t even understand what you are arguing…I also doubt that you even do.

I’m talking about the small snapshot of history that is American-African slavery, that was mentioned in the original post.

I’m also trying to convey that we are not at ‘the end of history’. I feel that the consequences of American-African slavery are still being felt and will be felt in the future.

The original poster asked us to discuss… that’s pretty much what we did - offered our own opinions.
Some of us are of the opinion that doing things against the will of others is wrong.

To give a proof based rebuttal it’d be nice to have a ‘proof’ based argument, and that would require a criterion for ‘better off’.

It seems we’re talking about the generations of today, so are we talking about being ‘better off’ financially, medically, nutritionally, academically, athletically, spiritually, emotionally, etc.
To discuss that we’d need statistics. Considering the possibility that statistics aren’t always objective and that our ‘proofs’ can only be as good as our statistics we would need to appreciate a substantial margin of error.

That all seems like it requires a substantial amount more effort than I’m willing to exert for a troll who in my opinion didn’t have much of an argument (rather an idea) in the first place.

Rainjack, if you believe something to be morally wrong, that in itself is a valid defense.

I wouldn’t need to offer a logical explication to convince you that pedophilia is just plain wrong, would I?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
A defense is needed? Most of the black population today in America is about as “purely African” as most whites are “purely German, Irish or Polish”. To make a claim that blacks today are better off is like saying that Jews should be thankful for the Holocaust because being Jewish is no longer a life threatening state of being and many are better off here than in early 20th century Europe. I don’t even understand what you are arguing…I also doubt that you even do.[/quote]

Most of the posts prior to mine used insults and indignation to address the question. How dare he say something like that? Doesn’t he know that slavery is horribly wrong to discuss it is to prove your ignorance? I thought the question was valid. Evidently folks will waste 3 or 4 paragraphs to inform the thread that it isn’t worth their time to discuss.

No - you are wrong. Slaves weren’t mass murdered. Why would a farmer go out and blow a hole in his tractor? The assumptions you make about the viciousness of slave owners being as ruthless (and whites) as the Nazis is not even worthy of responding to.

First of all let’s have a little history lesson. Long before any white man set foot in Africa, blacks were warring tribes and taking each other into bondage, separating families and such. The Arabs before the white man plundered Africa for the slaves they could take.

Then came along good ole western european whitey. Once they landed on the shores of the dark continent as it was called, blacks sold their slaves to the whites and even formed raiding parties to capture other tribes. All this was done for the white mans gold. That is how history was.

Also our Civil War was not fought or started over the slavery issue. It was a side issue. It was all about cotton. The factories in the north were suffering because the south was selling their cotton for a better price to England. Things finally heated up with Northern blockades to prevent shipping and then the ultimate firing on Fort Sumpter. It was after the war was started that the Emancipation Proclamation was signed.

Yes, I think American blacks are better off being here. With the exception of Egypt, Morocco and South Africa none of them could exit without our aid and still their standars of living are not near what ours are. They still continue to slaughter their own people as they did hundreds and perhaps thousand of years ago. I know that I am Italian and Irish descent but most blacks in this country cannot name their country of origin. African American? hmmmm sounds like a misnomer.

Just so you all know, I am married to a beautiful black woman and we have 2 children. She was called an Uncle Tom by her school mates because she wanted to excel and did. Most of the time, blacks are their own worst enemy when it comes to making advances in todays society. All the social welfare programs and democratic hocus pocus has not improved their lot one bit. Affirmative action is and was a horrendous flop. It was only ment to be used as a recruitment tool to get the message out, not used as a quota standard which in and of itself is reverse discrimination.

OK I said enough.

Yeah, so because only some slaves were lynched for simply checking out a white woman and not “mass murdered” I guess it’s OK that there was slavery in this country?

BTW, read your history book, Africans were enslaved in the US for their superior agricultural knowledge. The entire US agricultural system’s foundation was built on the proprietary knowledge of African farmers brought here against their will. In other words, African slaves were brought here because they make cheap tractors.

That should say they were NOT brought here just because they’re cheap “tracktors”.

[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
That should say they were NOT brought here just because they’re cheap “tracktors”.[/quote]

Slaves were bred like stock animals to produce the biggest, strongest, and most efficient farm labor possible. If it makes you feel better to think that blacks were enslaved for their cerebral capacity, go right ahead. But youare believing a crock of shit.

And regardless of what you say, slaves were not mass murdered, certainly not on the same systematic, and intentional scale of the WWII jews. Most of the violence against blacks/slaves came AFTER their emancipation.

Never said that any of the atrocities committed in this country during that time were right, they were wrong. And tell me about all these abundant fields that they had. They were brought here because they were cheap labor. The owners could not have afforded to pay the “free” people in this country to do it. If you think slavery is abolished in this country then you are mistaken. It flourishes in the sale of women for men and I am not talking prostitution. I am talking out right ownership.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Panther1015 wrote:
That should say they were NOT brought here just because they’re cheap “tracktors”.

Slaves were bred like stock animals to produce the biggest, strongest, and most efficient farm labor possible. If it makes you feel better to think that blacks were enslaved for their cerebral capacity, go right ahead. But youare believing a crock of shit.

And regardless of what you say, slaves were not mass murdered, certainly not on the same systematic, and intentional scale of the WWII jews. Most of the violence against blacks/slaves came AFTER their emancipation. [/quote]

Being from Texas, you should know that most of your prescious crops were saved from disease because of the agricultural expertise slaves were brought to the US for. Unfortunately you are either flaming like an immature teen or you are just too damn ignorant to accept these truths I just presented to you. So which is it?

I never mentioned the word mass murder. But, the death toll of Africans has far exceeded the holocaust and I am talking only the last 10-15 years.

First off I am not from Texas. Far from it though my ancestors did have a plantation in Texas and owned slaves. Secondly prove your point.

[quote]drag0n252pi wrote:
First off I am not from Texas. Far from it though my ancestors did have a plantation in Texas and owned slaves. Secondly prove your point.[/quote]

Relax, I was replying to rainjack. As for my “point” about slaves being brought here originally for their agricultural expertise, it’s written in pretty much every reputable history book used today. I suggest you visit your local library or browse the internet and check it out for yourself.

Sorry, I answered that last post as it was not directed to me.

The African nations are killing themselves off in droves without firing a shot. It is called unprotected sex and they are dying by the millions from AIDS.

[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Panther1015 wrote:
That should say they were NOT brought here just because they’re cheap “tracktors”.

Slaves were bred like stock animals to produce the biggest, strongest, and most efficient farm labor possible. If it makes you feel better to think that blacks were enslaved for their cerebral capacity, go right ahead. But youare believing a crock of shit.

And regardless of what you say, slaves were not mass murdered, certainly not on the same systematic, and intentional scale of the WWII jews. Most of the violence against blacks/slaves came AFTER their emancipation.

Being from Texas, you should know that most of your prescious crops were saved from disease because of the agricultural expertise slaves were brought to the US for. Unfortunately you are either flaming like an immature teen or you are just too damn ignorant to accept these truths I just presented to you. So which is it?

[/quote]

Is that your opinion or a fact? If a fact please site a reference that is proven.

[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
Being from Texas, you should know that most of your prescious crops were saved from disease because of the agricultural expertise slaves were brought to the US for. Unfortunately you are either flaming like an immature teen or you are just too damn ignorant to accept these truths I just presented to you. So which is it?
[/quote]

Name these “precious crops” that were saved. The part of the state I live in didn’t have ANY row crops planted on them until after the advent of deep well irrigation practices in the the early 20th century.

If you want to talk about blissful ignorance - pal you are writing the book on that one if you think that the slave weren’t bred like stock animals. Black slave men were referred to as “Bucks”, no? Is that some sort of 19th century slang for agricultural genius?

Black folks today display far greater athletic ability than most of their white counterparts. Why do you think this is? Because they were bred and selected for their farming ‘knowledge’? Wake the fuck up, kiddo. I’m not denying that the early slaves had knowledge that might have been useful, but to believe that the braintrust was the only reason the Africans were brought over here is just sheer stupidity, or flat out denial.

Which is it for you? Are you stupid, or just choosing to create your own reality?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Panther1015 wrote:
That should say they were NOT brought here just because they’re cheap “tracktors”.

Slaves were bred like stock animals to produce the biggest, strongest, and most efficient farm labor possible. If it makes you feel better to think that blacks were enslaved for their cerebral capacity, go right ahead. But youare believing a crock of shit.

And regardless of what you say, slaves were not mass murdered, certainly not on the same systematic, and intentional scale of the WWII jews. Most of the violence against blacks/slaves came AFTER their emancipation. [/quote]

If we are really going to seriously even consider if African Americans are better off can we only look at one period of there history that of Slavery, what about the practice under which whites, motivated by extreme racism, would attack black Americans in myriad brutal ways to control them. Between 1882 and 1901, more than 100 people were lynched each year in the United States, and the great majority of them were southern African Americans–numbering nearly 2,000 men and boys killed in those two decades. The wave of mob murder continued unabated in the first two decades of the 20th century, numbering nearly 4,000 people by 1932, before tapering off in the 1930s and 1940s. Two or three people were lynched every week in the nation for over 30 years. Whites used mob violence and lynching to control all kinds of black behavior, from voting to manners and attitudes. Most lynchings happened in rural area and small towns whereas mob violence took place in cities. People were brutally murdered by being hung, burned, beaten, mutilated, dragged behind wagons, and other acts of savage torture. In most cases, the local police allowed the lynchings to occur, and witnesses often included the entire white community. In many cases, the victim’s body was cut up for souvenirs. Lynchings were usually justified as community responses to black assaults on white women. In fact, the vast majority of such attacks involved no alleged rape at all, and, typically, the black victims were men and some women who were politically active or economically successful. Many were innocent bystanders who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Blacks responded by launching a national movement to pressure Congress to pass Federal anti-lynching legislation, but these legislative attempts suffered defeat year after year due to the power of southern white senators.

And two last questions for rain and dragon do you even care about these horrible things? I am serious would you have participated in this documented activity if you lived in the period,Possibly bitter that you no longer had the benefit of owning those slaves you so proudly claim your ancestors owned? Which I don’t believe they did you just say that to make yourself fee seperior.