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Skip Hill's Latest Article (35 Bullet Points On Training)

Not before you consistently get adequate calories in. Until you’re healthier you shouldn’t give a rat’s ass about any minutiae

Work from the bottom up


In terms of lifting: yes
Nutrition: No


I really like Dr. Stevenson, but I don’t think these variables are independent.

As an example, in that chart, “taste & satiety” come into play well after total caloric intake is taken care of. The point, obviously, is that you have to have your calories right before all else. However, if you see this strictly as a hierarchy, it’s going to be very difficult to manage your total caloric intake if taste and satiety are not in place.

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Objectively false in terms of nutrition.

Stu got me shredded to the bone with the points discussed. They work. No intra carbs, no special placing of carbs except a relatively higher-carb meal BEFORE a workout (sometimes none after), no shunning pasta or grits or even some sugar containing items, carb cycling/refeeds, etc. @The_Mighty_Stu


Thanks for the tag. Had to scroll all the way up and read the original post… some good points I definitely agree with, because inmost cases, when someone has been relatively successful around the game long enough, they realize that most things being written about or pushed are unnecessary.

It blows my mind how many kids ask me about pre-workout products when they’re barely training, not eating right, and just joined the gym for the first time ever anyway.



I appreciate your perspective, however I don’t think that by modelling it as a hierarchical model the inference is that lower rungs are to be met at the expense of higher rungs. Because, it’s as you say, unless taste & satiety is there meeting calorie needs will be hard presenting a Catch-22.

However, and this is not something I myself am an advocate for with regards to everyone, it’s… possible that he’s actually saying that sometimes gaining weight just will not be enjoyable.
The topic of meal size is treated quite a lot in the work that image is from, as in “eating buttloads might cause indigestion and bloat and that’s not very enjoyable so we’ll eat more often and adjust our meal sizes”.

Maybe not all meals will be served by optimizing for taste & satiety. No model is ever really perfect. Another thing entirely absent is financial cost. If you’re suffering too much financially to sustain your diet then that’ll set you back in some ways as well so.

Anyway, I was hoping to highlight to @anna_5588 that in her case there are more important things to address first.

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I don’t think we’re disagreeing on the bigger picture, but I do think a pyramid necessarily implies a stepwise approach.

I think “optimal” has become my least favorite word on this forum - we (and I don’t actually mean you when I type this, because I’m familiar with your posts) have created this concept of “it’s either perfect or useless.” To say we have to optimize for taste & society is again going back to independent hierarchical variables. I think these things are interdependent. In the example you just posted, maybe you’re a little more full than you want, but you better be thinking about taste and satiety as you set yourself up to get your calories in or it’s just not going to happen two days in a row.

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Tell me more!

I think I meant to write “opt” but autocorrect happened >_<. I do agree with you though. Optimal becomes the enemy of good far to often for “optimal” to have any value at all. Just seek good. Good is what’s optimal. Good and “works”. Much more important than finding the absolute max that can be eeked out of something.

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Arent those parts the new newbie stack? With the 1gr gear a week before completing their 1st legday (still thinking if i should put :joy: or :sob:)

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I was thinking about this today at lunch. My go-to on the go is a chicken salad or chicken sandwich, so protein+carb with a preference for protein, so today I got chicken sammich at a food court type place.

Then there were the other two guys- one got some kind of “Chinese” meat+rice and extra grease, the other some kind of noodle garbage with extra grease. Both primarily carb+fat.

They were both screwed after lunch for the rest of the afternoon, tired, complaining, wanting a nap.

Entirely informal observation, but fits well with the old rule of thumb macro combos.

Doesn’t help that the grease noodles guy is already 250+ lbs. of blubber and complaints/excuses.

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I agree on the chicken salad. I started preparing one, after feeling half death after a lunch break. It made a huge change to my mental state post lunch break. I have been productive and energetic. The only problem is feeling hungry 2 hours afterwards. But I have added 50 g of nuts to my diet. And since soccer practice is around 8 or 9 pm, nuts + shake + banana has been a great combo to fuel energy for soccer and have a light dinner afterwards.

That’s usually when I’ll have an orange or some pineapple chunks or something similar. A nice jolt of fruit/sugars around 2:30 or 3:00 and a coffee to finish out the day strong.

If I can stay out of a trough it seems to self perpetuate, but when I get in one, good luck getting out. Also very self perpetuating.

Also remember that his client base is very different these days. He used to prescribe to athletes or people looking to get ripped the same thing he prescribed to everyday folks looking to not look awful.

If you look at the guidelines for people looking to get to 10% bf and below then you’ll see it hasn’t softened that much ( or at least not the last time I looked)

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Haha, back in '18 when I thought rice and bacon was a P+C meal,

I’ve always had trouble napping during the day, but that meal constellation just wiped me.

Introduces some conflation for sure.

Completely true. Really glad you pointed this out (I should have!). Whenever I visit the PN site and see the coaches I go “that’s no the results that I’m after”. But, PN does tend to take a lot of concepts and package them nicely and have been super handy to give as a reference when people come asking me stuff.

Sorry for late reply. I did IIFYM to a degree with carbs. I don’t mean I substituted candy for potatoes, but everything worked out so long as the carb amounts were accurate. Processed carbs like pasta, rice, grits, cream of wheat are fine.

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No worries! I was kind of joking. I like grits, and don’t find a ton of others that do. Shrimp and grits is a low-fat delicious meal!


Grits are awesome.