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Skinny Fat with Muscles. Diet Request


#1

Hi There

I come straight to the point.

I am skinny fat, BUT i have muscles on me. Training for around 5 Years. I am doing a classic 5/3/1.

I eat around 2400 calories a day
somthing like:
240g carbs
210g protein
66g fat

I am doing IIFYM.

I was at around 165lbs and now i am around 191lbs

I gained a lot of fat because i had a surgery on my hip and i could not traing for 6 months so i ate a lot.
My new job also requires to sit almost the whole day, so less calorie burning.

I training 4 times a week for around 75 min with moderate to high intensity, doing NO cardio.

I eat 2-3 meals per day, usually 1 small breakfast and two big meals.

I can say that i have also a very slow metabolism so its twice as difficult for me to get rid of the fat.

So i have no clue how to get my diet on point to get myself back in a decent shape and further beyond.
My calories are a staple, so it means i remain in my weight. If i have a deficit then my metabolism gets worser and i lose strength, and if i eat more then i get fatter. had one of you guys a similiar problem. Or to the coaches around here, how do you consider your clients. In wich direction of diet should i go ? thx for any feedback


#2

what does a typical day’s eating look like?


#3

So the small meal is around 30g carbs coming from rice cakes, and a scoop of protein.

For lunch i have usually a sandwich with some lean meat of choice, and some light mozzarella. its around 60g carbs, 30 - 60g of protein and usually 10-20g fat, depends of the meat.

The last meal for dinner i eat a standard scource of carbs like potatoes, rice, pasta with a meat. Either chicken, lean pork, beef and sometimes tuna, for my fiber i use a veggie of choice, lentils or a fiber powder… usually i cook with coconut oil and using some condiments. No fatty sauces. The only sauce i use is our lovely sriracha sauce that has really low carbs.

I try to fill the rest of my calories with this meal cause its Post workout and i am normaly really hungry.

If i am not reaching the goal then the i fill out the rest with a shake, some nuts and more rice cakes.

And if i now i have a big cheat meal somewhere in my week, i try to keep the calories down to not overexceed the weekly goal.


#4

get a calorie counter app.
if this is normal for your first 2 meals of the day your probably off on your count


#5

i have one, my fitness pal. i reach it every day plus minus 100 calories


#6

try makeing your first two meals of the day your big meals,snack like, protien shake fruit before workout cut back on third meal


#7

ok, so you guys say to me, that the way to approach the skinny fat problem and the metabolic slowness is switchin my meals up. Thats the secret ?


#8

You don’t need a cheat meal apart from self satisfaction, so drop that. IIFYM is perhaps the most idiotic approach to eating as well, especially when you have an excess to get rid of.

I’d change the quality of the food items as well. Personally i’d swap the rice cakes & shake in the morning with something more solid and slower, eggs & veg. You also mentioned the word ‘veggie’ only in a single meal, so you hardly get enough.

I can’t comment on the slow metabolism thing since that’s a very complicated subject in itself with all the hormones and stuff but try moving more. Something like gradual HIIT (i don’t know your athletic background) or everyday walks surely would be helpful. Hell go jog if you want.

Good Luck


#9

The best thing you could possibly do for yourself is escape the calorie/macro counting trap (and it is a trap) and learn how to eat well.

Once, you’ve mastered that habit, losing/adding weight becomes a matter of - shock horror - eating a bit less or more.

I’ll never understand why folks throw away decades of experience with food, to punch stuff into a phone/computer and have it tell them they’ve “dun good”


#10

So something like this would be better:

Breakfast:
some eggs with oats, plus a veggie

Lunch:
solid slow carbs like rice, sweet potatos, veggis and a big piece of lean meat or fish

Snack (pre-wokout):
Banana or fruit of choice, with a whey shake or a multi source shake (egg protein, casein, milk protein)

Dinner (Post Workout):
Whey shake, + same as Lunch

Before bed:
A casein shake, or somthing like cottage cheese with slow digesting protein

Is this a good approach ?

And you say i should not count, even if i switch to these foods?


#11

no thats not the secret
instead of telling you to read every thing on this site on eating and training and figureing things out from there,its more fun to play the guessing game as to what you have tried and not tried and give you ideas on what to try
some count calories
some eat healthy{define healthy}
some count macros
almost everyone who got some where will tell you something different

can be caused by low thyroid function,too low of calories,plus few others


#12

has any of you guys dealt with this problems ? What are your experiences ?

@coaches how do you treat your clients at problems like slow metabolism or skinny fat or both?


#13

Quite a conundrum. I understand your perspective, but you’re leaving out training. You can easily manipulate body composition without touching nutrition and modifying training. Without knowing how hard you push it in the gym, it sounds like you’re lifting some moderate weight with 5/3/1 at moderate intensity, without doing any cardio. If you’re not doing any type of conditioning, or cardio, and doing all relatively low reps in the gym, I would imagine you’re not going to lose weight unless you increase training intensity/frequency or cut calories even more. I’d rather adjust training than cut calories personally. Obviously you have to change something.

I also don’t think you have a uncontrollably slow metabolism, unless there’s an underlying medical issue. (Have you ever been checked for one?) Assuming there isn’t, I think you need to train harder and maybe switch programs for a little while to something more intense, and educate yourself more on how to eat (all of which you can search around and find on the site). Here’s a starting point:
Nutrition: (use this for food sources and possible macros) https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/eat-to-get-big-without-getting-fat
(how to design a good cyclical diet) https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/carb-cycling-codex
Training: https://www.t-nation.com/training/how-to-design-a-damn-good-program-1

Regarding your “skinny fatness”, you also wrote that you gained about 30lbs of fat, so are you being realistic with yourself about your physique? Not trying to give you a hard time, it’s important to be real with yourself so you can adjust your training and nutrition accordingly.

Can you post pictures? Also, how tall are you? I’ve never seen “skinny fat with muscles”, maybe seeing pics could help us better recommend some fixes for you.

Agreed!

Just my opinion is that you have a lot of work to do regarding both training and nutrition, it sounds like you think you’re doing everything right and nothing is working, so there MUST be a problem, and someone out there who can give you the magic fix. You must know and understand:

-There is no magic fix, or something that someone can say, “hey do this and that and you’ll be set.” There are MANY things you need to try for yourself, and be consistent, and learn what’s best. People that have great physiques take YEARS to build it, and educate themselves. You post on a website and expect someone to solve all of your problems in a couple of posts. Anyone that’s offering advice here has all spent years of trial and error on themselves and done the research to know what works. They’ve also no doubt read some of the THOUSANDS of articles and forum posts on this website that can give you all of the info you need. You’ve already received a lot of good info from the people that have previously replied to you, but you give the impression you don’t want to hear it unless it’s something you agree with.

For what it’s worth, my thoughts would be to think about stopping 5/3/1 for a bit and switching to something that’s higher intensity. Or, add a few conditioning days. Again you didn’t really talk about your training at all other than you’ve been training 5 years and you’re doing 5/3/1. That’s a HUGE variable.

If you have a caloric deficit, you lose weight/fat, it does not mean your metabolism slows down. Typically it gets faster especially if you’re doing conditioning/cardio, which you should be if you’re trying to lose fat. And yes when you cut sometimes you do lose some strength, there are ways to combat that with your training. If your priority is to lose fat, you need to be ok with losing a little strength to get to the level of leanness you want. Unless you’re competing in a powerlifting competition, it shouldn’t be a big deal.

You ultimately need to decide what your number one goal is, and realize your training AND nutrition must BOTH support that goal 100%, which they currently do not.


#14

This is probably what i wanted to hear, or better say what i needed to hear. Because of my 5 years i know theres not so much experience, i can only relay on my personal experience.

My training details are:

Lower A
Squats 5/3/1 sets and reps
American DLs 3-5 sets x 10
Goblet Squats 3-5 sets x 10
Abs

Upper A
OHP 5/3/1 sets and reps
Flat DB Bench 3-5 sets x 10
Lat Pulldowns 5+ sets x 10
Arms

Lower B
Conv. Deadlifts 5/3/1 sets and reps
Pull throughs 5sets x 10
Abs

Upper B
Bench Press 5/3/1 sets and reps
Flat DB Bench 3-5sets x 10
Seated Rows 5+ sets x 10
Arms

All accessories are progressive overload or trying to improve in some way (more weight, volume, more reps, etc)

For Conditioning you mean is better to do a type of HIIT. In every skinny fat article i read they say No Cardio, or at least no Low intensity.

You think for more intensity , ishould drop the 5/3/1 sets and to somthing like 5x10 or like pseudo smolov jr program.

I never checked my metabolism, i just think it for the reason; when i was lighter 165ish and right now 190ish, i ate the same calories and the same macros

i am 5.7 tall (174cm)
i can post pictures later on, i have no access to a camera right now[quote=“robstein, post:13, topic:214457”]
Just my opinion is that you have a lot of work to do regarding both training and nutrition, it sounds like you think you’re doing everything right and nothing is working, so there MUST be a problem, and someone out there who can give you the magic fix. You must know and understand:

-There is no magic fix, or something that someone can say, “hey do this and that and you’ll be set.” There are MANY things you need to try for yourself, and be consistent, and learn what’s best. People that have great physiques take YEARS to build it, and educate themselves. You post on a website and expect someone to solve all of your problems in a couple of posts. Anyone that’s offering advice here has all spent years of trial and error on themselves and done the research to know what works. They’ve also no doubt read some of the THOUSANDS of articles and forum posts on this website that can give you all of the info you need. You’ve already received a lot of good info from the people that have previously replied to you, but you give the impression you don’t want to hear it unless it’s something you agree with.
[/quote]
I never expect someone to give solution or that magic fix, i need some advices to go in the right direction. I am also playing in my mind to hire a coach that can seriously help me getting back in shape, physically and mentally.


#15

Here are some actual pics of me this morning.


#16

While there is a myriad of opinions, views and advice to be the had, the best thing you can do is select what is doable for you and stick to it. M best gains have always been when my personal circumstances allowed it. Therefore, if you can afford the time to train more - train more. If you can afford to supplement - supplement, etc, etc.

Also, there are some basics which can always be relied on to progress:

count calories and macros. You are already doing this and if you cycle the same food choices you soon can rely on estimates without having to rush for the kitchen scales.

limit carbs to 150-200g max. Or consider cycling them.

Consider a new training programme which emphasises metabolic load, e.g. full body training.

Throw in conditioning and look to switch up sessions on a regular basis. Keeps it interesting and your body guessing.

You should achieve very noticeable gains within 1-2 months, assuming you stick to this.


#17

Cool thanks for posting some pics and more info. Again this is just my opinion based on the info you gave and looking at your pics.

You’re not “skinny fat” and my suggestion would be to stop thinking of yourself in that way, and stop looking at ways to fix your non existent problem, like saying you shouldn’t do cardio. You say you’ve been training for 5 years, is that 5 years of consistent, non-stop, all out training, before your hip surgery? Your training has probably gotten you some good strength, but not much appreciable LBM. Your physique certainly isn’t one that would make someone think “fat,” by any means, but I also don’t think you have the look of someone who trains, possibly with the exception of your quads. Again definitely not “fat” but not athletic. Again just offering my honest opinion. You gained almost 30 pounds of fat and that’s what it looks like. Do you have a picture of yourself at 165?

Read those two quotes back and forth a few times. You do have a slower metabolism than you used to, but you make it sound like you have a metabolic problem, making it even more challenging for you to lose weight than it would be for someone else. It’s slower than it was when you were at 165 because, as you said, you stopped training and ate a lot. So, you became sedentary and ate a lot of stuff you shouldn’t have, and you gained almost 30 pounds of fat, obviously slowing down your metabolism as a result of your actions. You can easily speed it up by training harder and adding some HIIT/conditioning. When you train hard and eat right very consistently, you’ll always have a fast metabolism. Your “slow metabolism” isn’t a complex issue, and is completely within your control to fix.

I think it depends on your goal. If you want to have the look of someone who has muscles and trains, which it sounds like you do, you should probably train for hypertrophy/bodybuilding for a long time. This is would be perfect: https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/tried-and-true-bodybuilding-program-template. Be sure to read the two precursor articles: part 1, part 2. You would also do well to add some cardio and/or start out with one interval session per week and see how it goes, and adjust accordingly.

You have received a lot of good advice from your original post. Between the responses from numerous folks and articles posted, and the countless articles available on this website, you have literally all of the information you need to transform yourself however you want.

My personal opinion is you do not need a coach right now and it would be a waste of money. You need to learn how to train consistently, how to eat consistently, and most importantly, how to take ownership and control of yourself. You were lean, gained almost 30 pounds of fat, and now you want/need to lose it. That’s it. A coaches job is to give you information and get you to the next level, not to put you together mentally and motivate you. That’s your own job.

This is a long term process, and if you really want to succeed you need to be ready to put in the time and consistency needed to arrive at your destination. There are literally practically unlimited resources on this website, and you have a lot of starting points with the articles posted. Take control, get to reading, get in the gym, get serious about your nutrition. A year from now you should look pretty good.


#18

Seems to me like you’re making out your situation is way worse than it is. You’re not “skinny fat”, you’ve just got a bit of extra fat on you. It’s not a terrible place to be, and I don’t think you need to worry about things like your metabolism slowing down or anything like that.

I bet if you consistently, and I mean consistently ate a good diet with a sensible calorie deficit, hit the weights hard and do a couple of HIIT sessions a week you’d get to where you wanted to be in no time.

But relax, dude, you’re really not in that bad a place to be starting out so don’t worry.


#19

Your situation is not a complicated one, so stop trying to make it that way.

Do this for 3 months:

Diet:
-Don’t count cals or macros.
-Eat the bulk of your carbs just before and after your workouts.
-Try not to eat carbs with your first meal if you train after noon.
-While recomping, most of your meals should be a protein and a green veggie. But eat a healthy low fat carb with your meal if you want here and there.

Workout:
-Pick a tried and true program and actually work hard.
-Do something in between your work sets (pull-ups, light rear laterals, pull a parts, band work, stretch, move!).
-Do high intensity interval cardio twice per week on off days.
-Do some low intensity cardio on workout days if you can fit it in. If not, no big deal.

This is what I do when I want to lean up, and it has never failed me. I hover around 15%, and can get to 10% in a few months or less depending on how far I restrict carbs. It’s such an easy approach.


#20

First of all Thx Guys for all of your good information. I appreciate all your tips on how to easier to approach this. I needed a couple of days to set up a new gameplan.

This is what i made, pls give me your honest opinion.

Training
i still keep my 5/3/1 but going to 5s progressions, no AMRAP so i can handle the high Hyperrophy volume on the accessories.

So the routine looks like this:

Upper Day A
OHP 5/5/5
Lat Pulldowns 5-10sets x 15
Flat DB Bench 5sets x 10
One Arm Pulldowns 5 x 15
Side Laterals 3 x 15
DB Curls 4 x 10
Hammer Curls 2 x 15
Abs, Hanging leg raises + RKC Planks
Low Intesity Cardio 30min

Lower Day A
Squats 5/5/5
American DL 5x10
Goblet Squats 5x10
Leg Curls 3x15
Seated Calves 3-5 x 30-50reps
HIIT 10 rounds on eliptical

Rest Day

Upper Day B
Bench Press 5/5/5
Seated Rows 5-10 x 15
Flat DB Bench 5x10
One Arm Pulldowns 5x15
Cable Flies 3x15-20 reps
Triceps Cable Pushdowns 4sets x 10
Abs, Hanging leg raises + RKC Planks
Low intensity cardio 30min

Lower Day B
Deadlifts 5/5/5
Pull throughs 5x10
Reverse DB Lunges 3x10
Leg Curls 3x15
Standing calves 5x 8-12
HIIT 10 rounds eliptical

2 Rest Days (weekend)

Notes:
Pre Workout i warm up With the Agile 8.
with my 5/3/1 warmups i also do some light sotts press to open up and improve my posture.

On Upper Days i add shoulder openers with bands (rotator cuff stuff) + Lacrosse ball stuff for shoulders and upper back. During/between workou/sets i usually do some pull aparts, shoulders dislocks and facepulls. Post workout i usually do some facepulls

On Lower Days i add some dynamic streches to open up the hips and increasing my ROM for Squats and Deads. During/between workou/sets i usually do some hip openers with band resistance and post workout some static streches.

Nutrition
I have lowerd my calories to 2300 (yes i still count).
I changed my bread with good carb sources (rice, potatos etc.)
Upping my breakfast with carbs, some fruits, oats, and a shake. I also addet a pre workout meal, with a banana and a shake). I try to eat 3/4 of my carbs during the day pre workout. Drinking only water, on the weekend some diet drinks if i am partiying, no alcohol, i am always the driver.

With these changes something should happen. I recalculate my my macros and cals if my the weight still dont change.

I wanna say thx again guys for your honest opinion.
I will post some after pictures in 16 weeks when i am thinking of getting holydays and maybe a deload week.