T Nation

Skim Milk & Body Fat

I have read on this site that the sugars in skim milk are only used to refill liver glycogen (like fructose) and as a result lead to bodyfat gains.

Is this true?

I have never seen any ACTUAL research done on this subject.

[quote]fedorov91 wrote:
I have read on this site that the sugars in skim milk are only used to refill liver glycogen (like fructose) and as a result lead to bodyfat gains.

Is this true?

I have never seen any ACTUAL research done on this subject.[/quote]

Glycogen is stored in the liver AND in muscle tissue, so that alone makes your statement untrue. A surplus of calories is what causes fat gain, not storage of glycogen. You need that glycogen to perform well in resistance training.

related question: is skim milk decent during and post workout nutrition?

[quote]dev wrote:
related question: is skim milk decent during and post workout nutrition?[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with drinking milk at either of those times. I personally would prefer a sports drink over milk while training because of digestability (yes, that is now a word…cause I said so). I drank 2% and whole milk all of the way through college. I usually stick with 2% now and only drink skim milk when dieting (or simply drop it all together when I drop calories).

[quote]dev wrote:
related question: is skim milk decent during and post workout nutrition?[/quote]

This is from John Berardi’s article “A Review of the 2004 ACSM Conference I”

  1. Topic: Post-Workout Nutrition
    Authors: Joseph Hartman and colleagues from McMaster University
    Abstract # 0287

There’s much debate about the best type of protein for improving muscle mass. In this study, 34 subjects weight trained five times per week for a total of twelve weeks. Immediately after exercise, subjects ingested a skim milk beverage, an isoenergetic soy drink or a carbohydrate placebo while the effects of the training and supplementation were measured.

Although statistically, there were no differences in the amounts of body mass, lean mass and muscle strength gained, it appeared that if more subjects were tested and responded similarly, the milk group would’ve performed better than the soy group and the soy group better than the carbohydrate group (the milk group gained 3.3kg of lean mass, the soy group gained 2.7kg of lean mass and the control group gained 2.2kg of lean mass).

In the end, although something like Surge is still the best post-workout drink, stop emailing me to ask what you should do if you can’t afford it! This study tells you to just drink skim milk.

Ultra Pasturized skim milk is the most worthless of all…
Pasturized Skim milk is the next most worthless…
Pasturized 2% fat is the next most worthless…
Pasturized whole milk is next most worthless but best out there in the grocery store.

RAW grass fed based whole milk is the best ! It’s loaded with enzymes including lactase, and undenatured protein. Plently of other good stuff not found in pasturized milk.

Skim and 2.0% is nothing more than powdered milk and water mixed together.

It isn’t that expensive to throw in PWO drink if you know where to get them individually for a lot less than Surge.

It’s alot cheaper to get milk protein powder than milk for a whole lot more proteins which is %80 casien and %20whey. Perfect for P+F drink but not easily mixable though. I know a place that sells 5 bucks a pound (454g). How does that compare to one gallon milk?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Glycogen is stored in the liver AND in muscle tissue, so that alone makes your statement untrue. A surplus of calories is what causes fat gain, not storage of glycogen. You need that glycogen to perform well in resistance training.[/quote]

Yes, Glycogen is stored in the liver and muscle tissue. That’s not the point. I believe he is asking whether galactose preferentially refills liver glycogen, as fructose does (goes through different metabolic pathways than does just glucose). Glycogen that is going to help the most with training is glycogen stored in the muscles. While it is true that a surplus of calories is the most important thing for fat (and muscle) gain, it is not unreasonable to be concerned about preferentially filling liver glycogen because of worries about denovolipogenesis (of course, post workout, even if liver glycogen is topped off, glucose is probably going to be taken up by the muscles before DNL will occur)…

So, in answer to the original question, i suppose I am just going to run off to pubmed or elsewhere and see what they have to say about milk and galactose.

[quote]Heavyw8Rower wrote:
concerned about preferentially filling liver glycogen because of worries about denovolipogenesis [/quote]

Did you just make this word up? If not, what reference are you using that shows this to occur?

Heavyw8Rower got my point about galactose and liver glycogen. that is my question.

Also is protein in dried nonfat milk denatured?

[quote]Heavyw8Rower wrote:

denovolipogenesis

[/quote]

What is “denovolipogenesis”?

Lipogenesis would mean “generation of fat;” what does the whole thing mean?

Thank you,

Ross Hunt

Pull “denovo” off the front of the word and then split it into “de novo” and it will start to make more sense…

[quote]vroom wrote:
Pull “denovo” off the front of the word and then split it into “de novo” and it will start to make more sense…[/quote]

I understood the root words from the beginning, however, there are usually three times that the body creates NEW fat cells and that is usually during childhood, during puberty or during EXTREME fat gain (which usually has a role in all cases). That is what “new fat genesis” would stand for and this does not apply to glycogen storage. I made it all of the way through school and have never heard of this term which was why I asked.

Fair enough. DNL is not referring to the creation of new fat cells, merely the creation of fat which could potentially be stored in fat cells. Just like dietary fats, you are not creating new fat cells when you ingest the fat, merely you are providing the body with free fatty acids (FFA) which can be stored in adipose tissues.

As far as galactose goes, I had a hard time finding studies (no, they are out there, I just didn’t search very long). However, my working knowledge of it is this: lactose is basically half glucose, half galactose (becomes that way in the body at least). You can think of it as similar to sugar in that regard (sugar half glucose half fructose). Galactose , while apparently similar in form to glucose, and similar in function to fructose, is metabolized differently than either. However, as stated, the metabolization results in liver glycogen storage just like fructose–not muscle glycogen storage. A small amount of galactose gets converted to glucose before it goes to the liver.

Actually, as I write this response I am reminded of all the areas I need (/want) to understand more clearly and learn more about. For instance, I need to know more about the conditions which must be satisfied for DNL to occur. Certain wisdom has that muscle and liver glycogen must be filled before the liver starts converting carbs to fat, but I do not know positively whether that holds true of non-glucose and glucose transport mediated carbs. I think (and this is why I am guessing the question got asked), that when too much fructose (or sucrose or galactose) is consumed and the liver reaches its maximum glycogen storage capactiy, DNL could be initiated before muscle glycogen storage is topped off (this also prompts the question: even if liver glycogen is topped off and more fructose would indeed be converted to fat, would glucose consumed at the same time also go through DNL, or just safely continue to restore muscle glycogen?–I am definitely showing my lack of understanding about the glucose transportation system here). If this is not the case, then there would be no reason to be concerned about the differences between fructose and glucose other than time to digestion and insulin response (and in most cases fructose would be ideal because of low insulin responses).

Maybe someone with a little more knowledge can help me with my last questions.

[quote]Heavyw8Rower wrote:
the metabolization (of galactose) results in liver glycogen storage just like fructose–not muscle glycogen storage. A small amount of galactose gets converted to glucose before it goes to the liver. [/quote]

Prove that this in no way goes towards muscle glycogen storage and that galactose is simply partitioned to liver glycogen. I would like to see at least one reference stating this as fact.

Beyond that, does this mean some of you are avoiding milk because you believe that fat is formed or increased simply because of galactose? Further, are you all actually showing the results in the gym to warrant being this analytical of theoretical biological pathways?

Also, please show where you are getting the term “denovolipogenesis”. It isn’t present in any of my anatomy and physiology texts.