T Nation

Size vs Aesthetics


#1

hey, sorry to ask this if it has already been answered but I was wondering what the differences in training between pro bodybuilding and aesthetics are. For example would someone like lazar angelov train in the same way that Ronnie coleman would train? how many days a week would each muscle be trained and what would the sets x reps be like for each of those people?

thanks.


#2

they train the same. The differences are genetics, calorie consumption and drug dosages.


#3

You don’t train a different way if you are after a specific look. You use the same training principles that yield the fastest rate of hypertrophy BUT focus on developing specific proportions that make up the look you desire to obtain.


#4

[quote]Yogi wrote:
they train the same. The differences are genetics, calorie consumption and drug dosages.[/quote]

Ronnie’s training was pretty weird for a bodybuilder. I mean if he was deadlifting 800 a weeks out from a show then he must have devoted a lot of time to strength training. Then there’s the walking lunges in the parking lot. Maybe that was just showing off.

I have no idea how any of that affected his build.

Jay Cutler seems like the type to train more conventionally


#5

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
they train the same. The differences are genetics, calorie consumption and drug dosages.[/quote]

Ronnie’s training was pretty weird for a bodybuilder. I mean if he was deadlifting 800 a weeks out from a show then he must have devoted a lot of time to strength training. Then there’s the walking lunges in the parking lot. Maybe that was just showing off.

I have no idea how any of that affected his build.

Jay Cutler seems like the type to train more conventionally[/quote]

Big Ron was a powerlifter before he took up bodybuilding


#6

I think Jay, who viewed his success as a competitor as his business, was pretty smart about acoiding injuries, recovery issues (constant myofacial work and massage), and his overall longevity in the sport. For a guy who was competing as a teen, to go as long as his did on stage, without any serious injuries derailing his ride is pretty damn impressive.

S


#7

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
they train the same. The differences are genetics, calorie consumption and drug dosages.[/quote]

Ronnie’s training was pretty weird for a bodybuilder. I mean if he was deadlifting 800 a weeks out from a show then he must have devoted a lot of time to strength training. Then there’s the walking lunges in the parking lot. Maybe that was just showing off.

I have no idea how any of that affected his build.

Jay Cutler seems like the type to train more conventionally[/quote]

I dont see whats weird about deadlifts and lunges


#8

[quote]srofa wrote:
[…] I was wondering what the differences in training between pro bodybuilding and aesthetics are. For example would someone like lazar angelov train in the same way that Ronnie coleman would train? [/quote]

I see pulldowns, presses, rows, and flyes (and I hear terrible music). Nothing super-special or extraordinary even though he’s one of those “aesthetic” men’s physique competitors - the guys who don’t “need” to build as much muscle as “real bodybuilders”.

If he decided to compete in bodybuilding, his training routine would almost-certainly require the least change. Bodyweight/muscle gains, nutrition, and “supplements” would have the most significant impact.

Training “for size” vs training “for aesthetics” is like 148-pound powerlifters vs 242-pound powerlifters or softball vs baseball. Way, way more in common with each other than is different.


#9

Sadik looks like he does because of his genetics more than any other factor. Does he specifically try to avoid anything he feels won;t help him? Sure, but if you look at 90+% of his exercise selections, food choices, even PEDs (although dosages will be open to some consideration I suppose), it’s gonna look pretty darn similar to BBers who “train for size.”

S


#10

Correct. Although there are guys who have destroyed their aesthetic look because of increasing drug dosages, it’s not like anyone is doing anything much different from one another. Sure, some guys, like Mike Francois for example, after some time abstained from deadlifts and squats because they believed it lead to a blocky mid section, but even after doing so, he was very thick throughout his entire torso. I highly doubt if someone like Flex Wheeler went nuts with squats and deadlifts, he would somehow ruin his V-taper; rather his whole body would grow in proportion.

And it’s not like Paul Dillet became did anything special to become a mass monster or Flex Wheeler did anything special to have one of the most beautiful, aesthetic physiques of all time, considering they were some of the lamest lifters. I bet everyone in this damn thread trains with more fervor than these two did. Dillet was huge because his structure is huge and he lifted (albeit lazily), took drugs, and had great genetics for building muscle. Dante once stated he thought Dillet could grow muscle mowing lawns and Sergio Oliva said he could he could have been better if he let Sergio coach him.

Flex Wheeler looked aesthetically pleasing because he had a small waist and small joints, wide clavicles, and great genetics for muscle building. I don’t think Charles Glass’s or Chad Nicholls coaching made him that way. He just needed people up his ass to keep him from cheating on his diet less or from skipping gym sessions, I believe!

Some people attribute Dorian’s grainy and rock-hard look to his training. He likely could have had the same dimensions and graininess had he not blown himself out on EVERY one or two main sets at EVERY session and taken a higher volume approach with sets taken to a bit before failure, the same way many other “power builders” did.

Sure there are other guys who say they are now “refining” their physique, but they wouldn’t have those physiques if they didn’t spend some time lifting heavy and eating quite a bit and the ones with “pretty” physiques always had them, even when they were chubbier and lifting heavy. People neglect that many in this hobby desire to seem more sophisticated than they are and like to appear that they are making their physique special because of their special ways when the things that are going for them are discipline, consistency, genetics, drugs, and effort!

It’s like all those guys who would love to have us believe that they are genetically challenged even though they have reached sizes that genetically inferior people CAN’T and setting powerlifting records. Sure we all know they have put forth tremendous effort, but they would like us to believe they had a seemingly unsurmountable hurdle to overcome in the process and they likely understand this hits home with many people, particularly Americans, because it falls in line with “rags to riches” and “self-made man against all odds” stories.


#11

Sadik looks like a bodybuilder anyway, I believe. Most top physique guys do, albeit some don’t seem to prioritize legs.


#12

Here’s an aesthetic physique with a good deal of size.

Dennis Newman.


#13

One of my all time favorites, Hamdulla Aykutlu.

You can tell this guy is somewhat ectomorphic, what some might refer to as an ecto-mesomorph. I don’t think any type of training or bulking cycles can change this.


#14

Francis Benfatto.


#15

Francois. Baggy clothing could not hide this guy’s brick house physique. He was incredible and could put some modern day pros to the back of the line.


#16

Rusty Jeffers. Guy trains like a demon and still has one of the most aesthetic physiques of all time. Squats, deadlifts, shrugs, rack lockouts, heavy benching, all that. Final visual product results from genetics.

And pardon me for my nostalgic behavior here, but this guy epitomizes what bodybuilding is all about (PERSONAL OPINION), just like Mike O’hearn does: size, shape, symmetry, good skin (not various hues of purple and red), and a good amount of vascularity, not so damn much that one has varicose veins not only at the legs, but in the damn delts and everywhere else too, a la Curtis Leffler and…


#17

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

I have no idea how any of that affected his build.

[/quote]

It seemed to have lent to him having one of the freakiest backs and set of quads in bodybuilding history. He was blessed in the strength department. Most bodybuilders spent some time doing deadlifts, many going pretty damn heavy, like Mike Francois, Chris Duffy, Justin Harris, Akim Williams (who I think goes up to near 700 if I am not mistaken), and Dorian (who did some modified deadlift, but also had some insane rowing strength).


#18

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
they train the same. The differences are genetics, calorie consumption and drug dosages.[/quote]

Ronnie’s training was pretty weird for a bodybuilder. I mean if he was deadlifting 800 a weeks out from a show then he must have devoted a lot of time to strength training. Then there’s the walking lunges in the parking lot. Maybe that was just showing off.

I have no idea how any of that affected his build.

Jay Cutler seems like the type to train more conventionally[/quote]

I dont see whats weird about deadlifts and lunges[/quote]

Well, walking lunges in a parking lot in texas during the summer isn’t weird. It’s just a little different. And 800lb deadlifts aren’t weird, just most training videos I see guys put have 10 rep deadlifts or higher, or they’re doing RDLs only. but Ronnie did a double from the floor. It’s like he always kept powerlifting in his training even though he wasn’t competing as a powerlifter anymore


#19

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

I have no idea how any of that affected his build.

[/quote]

It seemed to have lent to him having one of the freakiest backs and set of quads in bodybuilding history. He was blessed in the strength department. Most bodybuilders spent some time doing deadlifts, many going pretty damn heavy, like Mike Francois, Chris Duffy, Justin Harris, Akim Williams (who I think goes up to near 700 if I am not mistaken), and Dorian (who did some modified deadlift, but also had some insane rowing strength). [/quote]

I was never aware of these guys in modern bodybuilding. Except for the ones that were simultaneously competing in powerlifting. Jonnie Jackson and Matt Kroc are honestly the only ones that come to mind


#20

I read an article by Coleman that said the only time he did those 800 lb deadlifts and Squats were for the videos. Yates says he got the graininess from having very thin skin and conditioning, so genetics, it also meant he would cut easily. I don’t think Wheeler had wide clavicles compared to his competition, but if you mean to say he had the gifts, that is accurate.