T Nation

Sign-Up Sheet for Iraq

Politics and World Issues
#1

It’s PUT UP OR SHUT UP time for warhawk T-Mag loudmouths like JeffR, Chucksmanjoe, Scrumscrub, Rainjack and Biltrightwave.

You guys must be able to do 50 push-ups and 50 sit-ups. I certainly hope so.

Why don’t you put your money where your big mouth is, and sign up for a tour of Iraq.

Come on, you fucking hypocrites, time to MOUNT UP. You love this goddamn war so much, show us the power of your convictions. Time to sign up for a trip to Iraq!

We need your RAH-RAH enthusiasm over in Iraq, not hiding behind your keyboard on a bodybuilding chat room!

Lets use this thread so we can document T-Mag Warhawk’s personal commitment to Iraq.

If you’re going to pussy out with “other priorities” like our Vice President Dick “Five Deferrments” Cheney" or John “Six Deferrments” Ashcroft, then spell out what these crucial other priorities are.

If you can use your personal wealth and family connections to get a stateside deployment like President Bush, then state that.

All other T-Mag warhawks, NO EXCUSES. Sound off with your personal plans for military service!!!

#2

Shut up, you idiot. Have you ever been in combat? I happen to agree with your position on the war, but the manner in which you carry yourself is precisely why “liberal” has become a bad word.

#3

Lumpy,

I’ve noticed an upsurge in this sort of post from you and Elk.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

First of all, is everyone not serving in the military who supports this war a coward in your eyes?

Second, are we all hypocrites?

Third, are there any civilian jobs that are dangerous and demand a large amount of personal sacrifice?

Fourth, are there any ways in which a civilian can contribute meaningfully to a war effort?

Fifth, does having close relatives die in combat count as service?

Sixth, isn’t it possible that every person that you personally insulted in this post is not only younger but more physically powerful than you?

Seventh, have you ever supported a war effort since you turned 18?

I would appreciate answers to each of these questions.

JeffR

#4

I was thinking about the French hostage situation, them begging for their lives (and so far the gov’t not caving) and I think it kind of applies here. It’s easy for everyone to make what seems like the right decision from far away. Chirac (he’s still their president and I’m not crazy right?) can turn his back and say ‘we do not negotiate’ thinking that, in the long run, this is better for everyone. But, if that’s the case, he should have to sit down and watch those two journalists die. I’m not saying that they are wrong in their stance so far, but I just think we too often become disconnected from the world. Same thing even with polluting the environment - it’s easy to forget (or not know!) about the poisons sprayed on the cashew crops that are killing thousands of Indians while you eat your nut mix. (Harpers mag, a couple weeks ago) But if we somehow found a way to connect the two more frequently, then maybe something would be done about it. I guess what I’m saying is that it’s not hypocritical to support the war without signing up, as long as you really know what you’re supporting. Not just the ends, but the means as well. War creates progress in some situations. The price? Horrible deaths for a lot of people. Is that the best way to solve the situation? Quite possibly! That’s a different debate. I’m just really afraid that people don’t understand the reality of situations sometimes. This of course applies to just about everyone, just about everywhere, and obviously I don’t know what to do about it.
Of course, part of me thinks I’m wrong, and that immersing yourself completely in the realities of some situations can produce the wrong conclusions, b/c you can no longer see things in the greater context. I’m only 23 though, so give me another couple decades and I might have a better idea…though probably not. : )

#5

Lumpy Must be watching the RNC…

#6

I’ve tried to get back into the service. I called the Marines, the Air Force,Army, Navy, and the Coast Guard.

They all told me I was to old to get back in.

Now the ball is in your court, Lumpy - time to put up or shut up.

I think it would be best for everyone if you were to just shut up.

#7

I love it how lumpers posts have become increasingly delusional during the RNC…and that says something for someone whose usual posts border on something out of the political X-Files. We can smell your fear from here Lumper…your boy is going down, and you know it.

4 more years.

thanks,
me

#8

Actually I think that Lumpy has a point.

Far too often people with no military service and/or no loved ones in the military are quick to send men off to possibly die in a war they themselves are not willing to fight.

Maybe only current military or veterans should get to vote. If you’re not willing to fight for your country then you don’t deserve to be involved in any decisions concerning the direction the country is going in.

#9

I do not think Lumpy point makes much sense.

Would you want all the school teachers to enlist? Who would teach our children? Don’t teachers provide a valuable service that is necessary for our country to thrive?

Would you want doctors to enilist? Is curing our sick citizens not a noble and may I say patriotic profession?

How about we send scientists in to Iraq… Ah, they help cure people from disease, study the environment, and lots of other things.

I think you see my point. You can serve your country in more ways than one. Certainly going to war is the ultimate sacrifice, but many other professions are vital to our survival.

I support the mission in Iraq, I am a scientist, and I have never served in the armed forces. I would go if it was necessary or I was drafted.

#10

“Maybe only current military or veterans should get to vote. If you’re not willing to fight for your country then you don’t deserve to be involved in any decisions concerning the direction the country is going in.”

This is quite possibly the dumbest statement I think I have heard in my life. Did a liberal just suggest that we should have less rights as americans?
or should it be that as long as you don’t support the war in iraq you can vote? Is that it?

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins

#11

As a veteran of the first Gulf war and an able bodied male of 33 yrs. of age in what I consider to be above average shape, if I fervently believed that this war was critical in the defense of our Nation, I would re-enlist and not let someone else take my place! I don’t think everybody who supports the war should re-enlist, but fervent supporters like BB who are the right age and make their support very well known definitely should put their money where their mouth is!

That would be an act of true integrity and honor which I would acknowledge! To see someone walk away from corporate lawyer earnings to go and fight the terrorist threat instead of enjoying the good life while someone else paid for their freedom!

#12

[quote]smk67 wrote:
I do not think Lumpy point makes much sense.

Would you want all the school teachers to enlist? Who would teach our children? Don’t teachers provide a valuable service that is necessary for our country to thrive?

Would you want doctors to enilist? Is curing our sick citizens not a noble and may I say patriotic profession?

How about we send scientists in to Iraq… Ah, they help cure people from disease, study the environment, and lots of other things.

I think you see my point. You can serve your country in more ways than one. Certainly going to war is the ultimate sacrifice, but many other professions are vital to our survival.

I support the mission in Iraq, I am a scientist, and I have never served in the armed forces. I would go if it was necessary or I was drafted. [/quote]

Oddly I don’t think that you see my point.

Some one can go in the military for two to four years after high school and then get out and become a doctor, teacher, lawyer, scientist, whatever. Society wouldn’t fall apart.

#13

[quote]Vegita wrote:
This is quite possibly the dumbest statement I think I have heard in my life. Did a liberal just suggest that we should have less rights as americans?
or should it be that as long as you don’t support the war in iraq you can vote? Is that it?

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins[/quote]

  1. Guess what…I’m not a liberal.
  2. At no point have I ever said that I don’t support the war in Iraq.
  3. Under my plan only veterans (do you know what that is?) or current military would be allowed to vote.
  4. If you’re not willing to fight for your country then you don’t deserve the right to tell someone else to do your fighting for you.
#14

Lumpy,

The name is dvldog short for “devildog” a name given to the Marines by the Germans that fought for Belleau Wood during WW1.

Here is a little background of myself and my family. I served 4 yrs. 91-95 honorably. No I didn’t go to the 1st Gulf War.

My Grandfather served in WW2 as a cook. My great uncle jumped with the 101st Airborne on D-day 1944 in Normandy, France

My father served with the Big Red 1 in Vietnam. My Uncle fought with the Marines in Khe-Sanh during the Vietnam War.

I have numerous cousins that have served over the last 20 yrs. Currently my cousin got back from a tour in Iraq a few months ago. He is a Navy corpsman and was attached to a Marine grunt unit and saw the shit hit the fan. My sister returned from her tour in Iraq in March she is in the Army and also getting ready to deploy to Afghanistan sometime early next year.

War is an ugly thing no doubt about it. I just want you to remember if it wasn’t for the people that have defended our way of life in the past, you in know way would have the right to say and do what you want.

One more question “What have you done for your country?”

SEMPER FI- To all the Vets and current Soldiers, Airman, Sailors, and Marines

#15

495690.1094650582430.Human_Shields.jpg799×533 86.1 KB

Certainly some good posts goin on in this thread. OK, lemme start by saying that for all of those that support what we do in Iraq…thank you. Your support is oftentimes one of the greatest gifts that any of us troops could possibly get. Someone (Lumpy) said that it’s time to man up, or shut up. Hey man, nothin wrong with that statement, but that is what this country is all about. Guys like me go to war WILLINGLY so others who don’t want to go don’t have to. However, since they’re here on the homefront, they are encouraged to shell out as much support for the war in Iraq as they can.
To those of you that are ferociosly against this war, let me ask you a question. Why? You say that you want us out of Iraq, but at the same time depriving us of your support can be as detrimental to the mentality of us troops than the people we’re fighting against. Believe me, the last thing we want to hear when we’re coming back from dodging bullets is that people back home (the ones sitting on their asses and porking their wives or girlfriends while we’re spooning with a buddy in a foxhole) don’t want us over there. There was a famous poster that my Ranger buddy had that said; “You shut the fuck up, we’ll protect America” So, unless you support the war, shut the hell up, because nobody wants to hear it. If I could, I would ship back to Iraq in a microsecond. Is it because I LIKE killing people? No. It’s because I’m proud of my cause and of what I do. What have you done to protect America lately? Keep up the good posts guys. RLTW

rangertab75

#16

Hey Lump – rock on with your bad self.

#17

[quote]rangertab75 wrote:
To those of you that are ferociosly against this war, let me ask you a question. Why? You say that you want us out of Iraq, but at the same time depriving us of your support can be as detrimental to the mentality of us troops than the people we’re fighting against. Believe me, the last thing we want to hear when we’re coming back from dodging bullets is that people back home (the ones sitting on their asses and porking their wives or girlfriends while we’re spooning with a buddy in a foxhole) don’t want us over there. There was a famous poster that my Ranger buddy had that said; “You shut the fuck up, we’ll protect America” So, unless you support the war, shut the hell up, because nobody wants to hear it. If I could, I would ship back to Iraq in a microsecond. Is it because I LIKE killing people? No. It’s because I’m proud of my cause and of what I do. What have you done to protect America lately? Keep up the good posts guys. RLTW

rangertab75 [/quote]

I fail to see how “not wanting you to be there” is lack of support. It is possible to support troops, and not want them to be there. There are troops who believe this war is being fought on false premises, yet recognise the contribution of those dodging the bullets. Why must all American political conversation be so polarised? “Your either with us or against us”. Do you fail to see that these people dont want you to die for what they see as lies? and the liberals fail to see that people will say, “Fuck the politics, something needs to be done and ill do whatever i can”.

Im an Aussie, so my political motives are seperate from those discussed in other threads in this forum, though we have troops in Iraq. Its attitudes like the above that really bring down the western world. “Freedom, unless your against my politics, my values, my delusions (of either side).” This attitude infects all people, and is the cause of much suffering and unintentional injustice.

#18

Beatnik,

Thanks for your contribution. Welcome to this forum.

I must warn you, it gets rough in here. It gets personal. Sometimes, it’s even over the line.

That being said, your post has much to recommend it. Your call for looking at both sides of an issue is appreciated.

There are many of us who feel very strongly that there are terrorists and dictators that need to be confronted with devastating force. Time and again, diplomacy does not reach them. Economic pressure is ineffectual. It is trully, “us versus them.”

You can’t reason with a terrorist. Hussein could not have been bought off.

Faced with this stark reality, I think it is understandable that some of us view people who oppose our current efforts as somewhat misguided.

I hope I have been as clear as possible,

Again, welcome,

JeffR

#19

It is a testimony to America that we have an all volunteer service. We are the best in the world. Some who volunteer might whine when they get called on to go to a war zone because they weren’t expecting it, but I think they are the minority. Those that choose to serve, know they are becoming the military arm of the US, the arm of force, that must sometimes drive our enemies. Because of so many patriots in America, it is not necessary for all who support the necessary use of military force to sign up in time of war. Most of those on the field would not even expect it. They are not whining like our favorite Lump of Crap- Come over here if you’re so gong ho. They would probably appreciate just as much our taking the time to bypass the liberal media, and learn what is really going on there. Then thinking and praying for them through their successes and setbacks, and honoring those who are killed or injured.

Here is the most recent Good News From Iraq limk of the OpinionJournal:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005543

#20

The only thing I want to add is that you definitely can support the troops without supprting the war. I don’t agree with the war in Iraq, but I definitely support the troops. I am an ex-Marine, and I know servicemen often have to do things that they don’t believe in or agree with. I guarantee that there are many men and women in Iraq right now that don’t think they belong there, but they know they have a job to do.

With that being said, even if I did support the war, I can’t join in the efforts. I can’t re-enlist.