T Nation

Side/Rear Delts


I have been focussing on rear and side delts for a couple years now…with all kinds of variations…without much progress, in the area im trying to build…

then about 2 weeks ago…I dropped all side lateral movements and tried the L-Lateral raise…presto! my side/rear delt tie-in took off…

and I literally have to use only 5, 7.5, and 10 lb baby weights…

any idea why this worked so well???

if you have not tried this give it a shot.

My lateral delts are my stubbornest bodypart by far and I would be elated to learn anything that would give em a jerk.

However I find it difficult to see the radical difference between lateral raises and L-raises assuming both are done right.

I’m also not necessarily doubting you, but define 2 weeks worth of “took off”.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
My lateral delts are my stubbornest bodypart by far and I would be elated to learn anything that would give em a jerk.

However I find it difficult to see the radical difference between lateral raises and L-raises assuming both are done right.
[/quote]

I have been racking my brains about this.

my best guess is that with focus on the elbows going up and down rather then the wrist/dumbell going up and down changes whats happening up at the shoulder joint.

beleive me try it…here is another pic I found of the same excerice…

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’m also not necessarily doubting you, but define 2 weeks worth of “took off”.[/quote]

Im pretty lean…see my pics in my profile (ill put 2 up shortly) …so I can tell as I actually work out exactly what is getting worked and what is not…

hope you get the same effects I feel/see…

[quote]mtotry wrote:
I have been focussing on rear and side delts for a couple years now…with all kinds of variations…without much progress, in the area im trying to build…

then about 2 weeks ago…I dropped all side lateral movements and tried the L-Lateral raise…presto! my side/rear delt tie-in took off…

and I literally have to use only 5, 7.5, and 10 lb baby weights…

any idea why this worked so well???

if you have not tried this give it a shot.[/quote]

I personally don’t care for L-Lateral raises. I too did side laterals and rear laterals in every shoulder workout. Mixed it up with cables, machines, etc. Not much for results.

My current program has lean-away dumbbell side lateral raises which help to remove the upper trap from the movement (to parallel of floor, “tea cupped” at top of movement). I like to grab onto a smith machine set at shoulder level, put my feet right under the bar, then lean way out, keeping body straight.

Maybe that’s why the L-Lateral’s work for you? You’ve removed the upper trap.

And my shoulder presses are now done in higher rep range (used to be 70lbs for 4-6 reps; moved to 40lbs for 15 reps; 3 sets) and with a neutral grip (palms facing each other through the whole movement) in the attempt to lessen the focus on the anterior delt and focus more on the medial. Just make sure your elbows are flared to the side, not the front throughout the movement.

My shoulders have “taken off” too. I guess any growth is great. Hence the exaggerations.

Maybe you want to try adding these two movements I’ve listed above to your current program as well.

[quote]AllTraps wrote:
mtotry wrote:
I have been focussing on rear and side delts for a couple years now…with all kinds of variations…without much progress, in the area im trying to build…

then about 2 weeks ago…I dropped all side lateral movements and tried the L-Lateral raise…presto! my side/rear delt tie-in took off…

and I literally have to use only 5, 7.5, and 10 lb baby weights…

any idea why this worked so well???

if you have not tried this give it a shot.

I personally don’t care for L-Lateral raises. I too did side laterals and rear laterals in every shoulder workout. Mixed it up with cables, machines, etc. Not much for results.

My current program has lean-away dumbbell side lateral raises which help to remove the upper trap from the movement (to parallel of floor, “tea cupped” at top of movement). I like to grab onto a smith machine set at shoulder level, put my feet right under the bar, then lean way out, keeping body straight.

Maybe that’s why the L-Lateral’s work for you? You’ve removed the upper trap.

And my shoulder presses are now done in higher rep range (used to be 70lbs for 4-6 reps; moved to 40lbs for 15 reps; 3 sets) and with a neutral grip (palms facing each other through the whole movement) in the attempt to lessen the focus on the anterior delt and focus more on the medial. Just make sure your elbows are flared to the side, not the front throughout the movement.

My shoulders have “taken off” too. I guess any growth is great. Hence the exaggerations.

Maybe you want to try adding these two movements I’ve listed above to your current program as well.
[/quote]

Ill definitely try lean away laterals and neutral grip shoulder presses as well…

thanks…

then about 2 weeks ago…I dropped all side lateral movements and tried the L-Lateral raise…presto! my side/rear delt tie-in took off…

theres your answer? you backed off a bit and then you gained some mass, i backed off my bench for a month and gained 15 lbs on it my first day back doing it, sometimes you just need to stop hammering away at a body part

isn’t there a saying, do what you have always have done and get what you always have gotten? Something like that.
Have you changed rep load, tempo, angle, volume, etc in the last little while? That may help too.

AT I’ve been doing exactly this to grow delts and not hit traps - haha! Yeah it’s working.

I also started combining a next stretch with a side raise, using very low weight, so deactivate traps. I’ve also been using high rep Arnold presses.

But my rear delts suck. I’ll try the L side raise, but are there any other suggestions on how to bring them up without hitting traps?

Thanks!

[quote]AllTraps wrote:
mtotry wrote:
I have been focussing on rear and side delts for a couple years now…with all kinds of variations…without much progress, in the area im trying to build…

then about 2 weeks ago…I dropped all side lateral movements and tried the L-Lateral raise…presto! my side/rear delt tie-in took off…

and I literally have to use only 5, 7.5, and 10 lb baby weights…

any idea why this worked so well???

if you have not tried this give it a shot.

I personally don’t care for L-Lateral raises. I too did side laterals and rear laterals in every shoulder workout. Mixed it up with cables, machines, etc. Not much for results.

My current program has lean-away dumbbell side lateral raises which help to remove the upper trap from the movement (to parallel of floor, “tea cupped” at top of movement). I like to grab onto a smith machine set at shoulder level, put my feet right under the bar, then lean way out, keeping body straight.

Maybe that’s why the L-Lateral’s work for you? You’ve removed the upper trap.

And my shoulder presses are now done in higher rep range (used to be 70lbs for 4-6 reps; moved to 40lbs for 15 reps; 3 sets) and with a neutral grip (palms facing each other through the whole movement) in the attempt to lessen the focus on the anterior delt and focus more on the medial. Just make sure your elbows are flared to the side, not the front throughout the movement.

My shoulders have “taken off” too. I guess any growth is great. Hence the exaggerations.

Maybe you want to try adding these two movements I’ve listed above to your current program as well.
[/quote]

Have you looked at CT’s Shoulder Specialization article? You may be able to pull some information out of it.

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-110-training

good call man - thanks!

I’m probably in the minority here, but I’ve always gotten pretty good results from the upright row. NOT the one in the mags with the hands a few inches apart, but rather thumbs grazing the ribcage width. Very strict, chest out with the bar dragging up the body.

I also like the old “Larry Scott DB Presses”. Take the DB’s, tilt the thumb side down with a palms forward std grip. Now keep the shoulders back and only use the “middle 3/5ths” of the ROM. Works for me. Good luck.

A good way to Iso the medial delts as much as possible, are;

High Incline L-Laterals

Leaning One Arm Side Laterals ( end with pinkie finger higher than thumb )

High Incline Wide Grip Front Raises

Some good Comounds that will likely put more stress on medial delts than anterior, or tris, traps whatever are;

Wide Grip BTN Push Press

Wide Grip BTNP

Elbows Flared Neutral Grip Dumbell Press

Low Incline Side Press

Dumbell Side Raise

Wide Grip Upright Row

Ahrens Press

Gironda High Pulls ( not to be confused with Olympic High Pulls )

Scott Press ( Thanks for reminding us Radjxf )

I realise that some of ( if not most ) of these suggested Compounds can be very dangerous, and will damage some peoples shoulders in the long run, so “let the buyer beware”.

Let me know if you need some descriptions. Hope I helped.

Edit 'cause I forgot about Front Raises and I second the Scott Press motion. I’ll be back with some rear delt stuff later when I get the time.

Try lateral raises while side lying.
By lying on your side the requirement to stabilise the shoulder girdle superiorly (i.e. by your trapezius) is lessened.
Some evidence - if you swing that way (side lying abduction is the lateral raise):

The L-lateral raise would most likely increase your external rotator requirements when compared to a standard lateral raise as it increases the requirement of maintaining rotational stability about the humerus.
However, due to the shear forces created by the deltoid the regular straight arm lateral raise may have a better rotator cuff co-contraction (when performed in the scapular plane - 30 degrees forward from the line of your back/shoulders or when your arms are in a straight line out to your sides).

Note: edited due to brain malfunction.

You guys are awesome. Amidst the trolls and dumb kids you often forget that there are some really knowledgable people on this site. Good stuff.

I think this guy knows about delts

I’m back with some Rear Delt stuff.

To Iso the rear delts as much as possible you should check out;

90 degree Bent Over Lateral Raise

Reverse Pec Dec

Some Compounds that should put alot if not most of the stress on your Rear Delts are;

Inverted Row

90 degree Bent Over Row to the Neck

One Arm Bent Over Rear Delt Row

That’s what I know for rear delts, and those will work. There are of course barbell/dumbell/cable/chest supported variations on some of these, but I think people can figure that out.

Some people find the chest supported variations like Two Arm Chest Supported Rear Delt Row, ( obviously a two arm chest supported variation on the One Arm Bent Over Rear Delt Row ) to help really focus in on, but of course not Iso the rear delts. So keep that in mind.

One more note on Side Delts;

Try to stay seated on a flat bench or on a high incline if your trying to Iso medial delts. This even goes for compounds.

Staying seated when the movement allows, will help you put more stress on your shoulders ( and arms ) + you can probably go a little heavier too seated. ( Not for ego, but for well you know the real reason to go heavy people! )

One more Side Delt Compound, I really like ( and can’t believe I left out! ) is;

Seated Bradford Press

That’s all from me. Train hard, go big, go heavier, do one more set, one more rep, or go home! Haha, good training guys.

One thing to remember is that the side delts respond best to high reps, their a slow twitch muscle group, I learned this when I injured my shoulder and all I did was DB work and my side delts blew up more than they ever did.

this thread is my frigging lifeline! You guys have no idea how tough I’ve found it to grow delts without activating my traps. I’ve tried a few of the suggestions, and I really like the lying side raises - I think that was the most I’ve felt my delts fire with virtually no trap activation. Amazing suggestion and I don’t know why I didn’t think of it before. Thanks again!

Great Responses…thank you all!

I thought I was going to ge flammed for starting a body shaping thread…lol

im going to start throwing in upright rows into my routine.

I did them to day and they seemed to hit the side delt, rear delt, and upper back tie in.

I have not done them for awhile after reading all the negative things about them. Doing them today felt great!

[quote]LAMF wrote:
A good way to Iso the medial delts as much as possible, are;

High Incline L-Laterals

Leaning One Arm Side Laterals ( end with pinkie finger higher than thumb )

High Incline Wide Grip Front Raises

Some good Comounds that will likely put more stress on medial delts than anterior, or tris, traps whatever are;

Wide Grip BTN Push Press

Wide Grip BTNP

Elbows Flared Neutral Grip Dumbell Press

Low Incline Side Press

Dumbell Side Raise

Wide Grip Upright Row

Ahrens Press

Gironda High Pulls ( not to be confused with Olympic High Pulls )

Scott Press ( Thanks for reminding us Radjxf )

I realise that some of ( if not most ) of these suggested Compounds can be very dangerous, and will damage some peoples shoulders in the long run, so “let the buyer beware”.

Let me know if you need some descriptions. Hope I helped.

Edit 'cause I forgot about Front Raises and I second the Scott Press motion. I’ll be back with some rear delt stuff later when I get the time.[/quote]

It will be a real help if u can describe those side delts exercises in greater details. Looking desperately for new ways to blast those stubborn parts. Thanks!