T Nation

Side Effects - First Cycle

First - thanks for taking the time to read and possibly respond to this post. I have learned much from the experienced people here and respect the opinions that are offered on this site and in this particular forum.

And…now I must admit this is a “first cycle” thread…however…I have done my research.

Quick background - 31 years old…been training off and on for the past 15 years, with an un-interrupted stint for the past two. I think I am at a point where I could benefit from a cycle (having never done one before). I have done much reading in the past several months.

My thinking at this point…for reasons I can go into in greater detail…is to do a ten-week cycle of Trenbolone only, at 1 cc a week. I have a great concern about side effects and am willing to limit gains in order to limit side effects. Also, since this is my first cycle, I want to use only one substance so I can accurately gauge it on its own.

I have a friend who has done many cycles, and he condones this (my research was independent of his advice). He claims I will have no sides, as he does not have any with his cycles. However, I notice visible signs in him that he is using. He calls me crazy, but I know what I see. His face has never gotten that particularly hard look you see (its very evident on some femal users) but his eyes change…the pupils become smaller and his eyes look far-away. I am sure most will know what I mean by this.

SUMMARY:
Looking for feedback on a first cycle.
Proposed cycle is 10 cc Trenbolone over a 10 week period.
Was hoping folks here with experience can clue me into side effects that I might experience with such a cycle.

Again…thanks for your time.

[quote]Jimfound wrote:
First - thanks for taking the time to read and possibly respond to this post. I have learned much from the experienced people here and respect the opinions that are offered on this site and in this particular forum.

And…now I must admit this is a “first cycle” thread…however…I have done my research.

Quick background - 31 years old…been training off and on for the past 15 years, with an un-interrupted stint for the past two. I think I am at a point where I could benefit from a cycle (having never done one before). I have done much reading in the past several months.

My thinking at this point…for reasons I can go into in greater detail…is to do a ten-week cycle of Trenbolone only, at 1 cc a week. I have a great concern about side effects and am willing to limit gains in order to limit side effects. Also, since this is my first cycle, I want to use only one substance so I can accurately gauge it on its own.

I have a friend who has done many cycles, and he condones this (my research was independent of his advice). He claims I will have no sides, as he does not have any with his cycles. However, I notice visible signs in him that he is using. He calls me crazy, but I know what I see. His face has never gotten that particularly hard look you see (its very evident on some femal users) but his eyes change…the pupils become smaller and his eyes look far-away. I am sure most will know what I mean by this.

SUMMARY:
Looking for feedback on a first cycle.
Proposed cycle is 10 cc Trenbolone over a 10 week period.
Was hoping folks here with experience can clue me into side effects that I might experience with such a cycle.

Again…thanks for your time.[/quote]

I feel you and your friend are mistaken.

Trenbolone is very potent and will definetly cause noticable sides. Also, the lack of testosterone in that cycle may cause you some libido problems.

Keep researching. This cycle isn’t consistant with someone very worried about sides.

did you seriously research for months?

if you are that scared of sides you should go for primobolan.

[quote]Jimfound wrote:
His face has never gotten that particularly hard look you see (its very evident on some femal users) but his eyes change…the pupils become smaller and his eyes look far-away. I am sure most will know what I mean by this.
[/quote]

I feel cheated, I haven’t gotten this look. Maybe if I smoked some crack?

If you are worried about sides I can’t believe you picked trenbolone. What are you specifically trying to avoid, and what can you live with in terms of side effects? That thing about the eyes, thats aggression. Certain steroids definately fuck with your brain. Theres no question. Test or deca makes me into Biff from Back to the Future, and I never see it while I’m on. I’d swear up and down I felt great and was actually calmer, and that everyone else was full of shit. It’s all bullshit, I was definately more aggressive and can see it very clearly when I am off and look back on it. You’re gonna have to do somemore reading before you do this.

10cc doesn’t mean much. I take it that you are looking at Tren-E at 200mg/cc?

Not sure what you mean by his eyes look further away (or whatever). And never heard of gear affecting your pupils.

Anyway, you can look forward to acne and some hair loss. Possibly being irritated more easily. And a great possibilty of ‘deca-dick’ because of the lack of testosterone. Test, IMO, is the best for your first cycle. I personally think that Test should be the basis for all of my cycles. YMMV.

[quote]Icarus wrote:
Test, IMO, is the best for your first cycle. I personally think that Test should be the basis for all of my cycles. YMMV.[/quote]

I never knew why everyone always said this until I started my cycle. I went with Primo and OT (due to the lack of sides)…

after 3 weeks everyting was cool and I was gaining weight like a mofo then I started feeling like a bag of crap. My nuts began shrinking and I was moody as hell. i started having wood problems and more difficulty busting a nut. Not good for a guy like me that places a high value on busting a nut.

I added some test and masteron and I feel like a million bucks after only a week! (everyone says it takes 3 weeks for an enanthate ester to hit…well I feel pretty frigin all right after a week so I am looking forward to the next few weeks).

For all future cycles I am planning to run a base of test with a DHT based compound and/or a 19nor based compound.

For any first timer I would now recommend plain old test with Adex and maybe some winny or proviron at the end to free up more test.

Thanks for the responses…much appreciated. I still need to do some homework…and I am not rushing things.

I called my guy up yesterday to inquire about primobolan…am considering running a short cycle (appx. 4 weeks) of just primo. I am not really looking for dramatic results. I would be happy with a 5 pound gain in LBM that would stick. Again…I want to avoid sides…particularly visible ones like water-retention etc. I would also like to minimize the liver tax. I know, I know, I can’t have my cake and eat it too. Basically taking the minimalist approach in terms of gains and thus sides. I could potentially take 4 to 6 weeks off and then run another short cycle.

Anyway…I call my guy and he says he can look into the primo…but he has ready to go Deca-EQ. Thats what he called it…didn’t want to go into too much detail on the phone. I assume thats just deca. Have not made a decision yet, but I could grab this and sit on it (a bird in the hand) rather than wait on primo which might not materialize. I am scared of the deca-dick like a mofo - that is the reasoning behind a shorter cycle.

Summary:
considering a short (appx. 4 week cycle of Primo…with a possible second cycle in 4 to 6 weeks.
Have immediate access to deca - would probably run the same as with the primo.
Not looking for dramatic gains…just a little boost and possibly some body re-composition.

Thoughts?

you would be piswsing you money down the drain with a 4 week cycle of these compounds.

If you are doing a short cycle it has to be with short acting compounds. If your primo is an enanthate then it won’t really kick in for about 3 weeks. Deca takes even longer.

If you are looking for 5 pounds with minimal sides do 2 months of Alpha Male or just Carbolin 19 at the recommended dose. It’s legal and sold through this site.

FG

Sorry. To clarify…I have immediate access to Deca and EQ (Boldenone).

Despite what I have read recently, it has been suggested by a good friend (of over 20 years and with a great deal of AAS experience) to run Deca for 20 weeks straight. I was suprised to hear him say that given where my research has led me. He did recommend I throw in test, but I don’t want to do that mainly due to androgenic side effects.

Re-summarize:
Immediate access to Deca and/or EQ.
Considering running one or a combination (not sure if combining would do anything) for 2 short cycles of about 4 weeks each, with about a 6 week break in between.
Question: Is it worth it to do this, or I am kidding myself that I could get a small-but-permanent gain by doing this, while avoiding shutting down my natural production post cycle…
I am really hesitant to do what I know I probably should and throw test in the mix. I want to be able to come out after the cycle with my natural production still relatively intact.

Again thoughts appreciated.

[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
you would be piswsing you money down the drain with a 4 week cycle of these compounds.

If you are doing a short cycle it has to be with short acting compounds. If your primo is an enanthate then it won’t really kick in for about 3 weeks. Deca takes even longer.

If you are looking for 5 pounds with minimal sides do 2 months of Alpha Male or just Carbolin 19 at the recommended dose. It’s legal and sold through this site.

FG [/quote]

Ok. Thanks. I am probably just beating this to death and looking for an answer that just isn’t out there.

If I were to run the deca longer…say 6 weeks…would I be able to bounce back relatively un-scathed in terms of my bodies own natural production? Deca dick is like a haunting phrase I hear in the back of my head when I am alone…or laying awake next to my wife (who I don’t want to know I am juicing).

[quote]Jimfound wrote:

If I were to run the deca longer…say 6 weeks…would I be able to bounce back relatively un-scathed in terms of my bodies own natural production? [/quote]

No, you will not. Its a poor choice for your desired cycle length and a poor choice to run on its’ own if you wish to avoid impotence.

I don’t want to sound like a dick, but you seem to be waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear, despite all the advice telling you to run either a test-based cycle or a short cycle with fast-acting compounds.

No…you don’t sound like a dick. I appreciate the advice…I have no experience here and I am looking for honest responses…so thanks.

[quote]lawrence wrote:
I don’t want to sound like a dick, but you seem to be waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear, despite all the advice telling you to run either a test-based cycle or a short cycle with fast-acting compounds.[/quote]

On that note…would you care to give an example of a short cycle based on fast acting compounds…I could use a starting point. Its hard to get the clear picture with so much contradiction on the net…

Thanks.

if you are looking for 5 pounds LBM gain with some strength increase go for a short cycle (~6 weeks) of something like Anavar (Var). It is very mild on the system side effects wise and will give a big strength increase with very little weight gain.

Otherwise you could try Oral Turinabol (OT) which has a bit more weight gain but very little sides other than increase of BP and a bit of water retention or winstrol (Winny) which will yeild a lot of strength and give definition but is a little harder on you liver and joints.

Type those names into the search engine and look up the profiles somewhere on the net and I am sure you will figure it out on your own.

Lose Deca from your vocabulary until you know what you are doing.

Put together a cycle on your own. Post it. and people will help. Don’t expect someone to do it for you cause you are missing an important step which is learning what the hell you are putting into yourself.

If you look at this board right now there is at least one or two idiots that shot deca without knowing clearance times, side effects, or recovery methods. These guys are idiots.

FG

The below represents a hypothetical situation and is intended for role playing purposes only:

Furious G - thanks for the input.

Just got your post upon returning home with a brand new purchase of Deca (300 mg per ml) vial, and an EQ vial (200 mg per ml) vial…about 10 cc’s each. I could have gotten Sustanon amps as well, but the guy was straight up with me and told me there was a great deal of pain and swelling at the injection site with the Sustanon…I decided to pass. He explained he wasn’t sure why there was pain and swelling, but indicated it might be due to extra alchohol in the sustanon mix. Whatever…I passed.

The expiration date on the Deca and EQ bottles is 2009, and I am in no hurry to start…so I will likely sit on these vials and continue to research my options. I grabbed them because I could…like I said I can hold onto them if nothing else.

So…thats what I have right now. My friend (who competes nationally - i know…who cares) explained to me that I would be fine taking JUST the Deca for 10 weeks (at a cc a week), or, his recommendation - to take the deca for 10 weeks, and then the EQ for 10 weeks for a 20 week cycle. This goes against almost everything I have read here. But he is a friend of almost 20 years and has a great deal of experience.

Nonetheless, I would not go 20 weeks on my first cycle. Also, I see no point in combining the deca and EQ. If, theoretically, I were to start tomorrow, I would take the deca at a cc a week for ten weeks, and then run pct with clomid. However, I plan to sit on the decision for at least a few anyway, so no matter…

Here is the thing…and I may start a separate thread on this because there seems to be at least some differing opinions on this board.

Please don’t get me wrong…I value the experience and advise given on this board, and in this thread in particular…but there seems to be a separation in opinions re deca.

I have read posts on this forum that condemn deca, and even more so deca wothout some form of test as a base. Then there are other opinions that say deca is fine and does not lead to any sexual disfunction if taken properly at moderate doses (300 -600 mgs per week). My boy in particular, who I have know since grade school and who has done many, many cycles, says my concerns re deca are unfounded and that I have little to worry about. He has never had a problem with deca.

Damn…this is a long post.

Anyway…I am hoping to get get feedback from those on this forum who have run deca on its own and can give personal accounts. Phat chance. It may be worth starting a separate thread as there is some dissention here.

Anyway…I will probably hold out until I get some test cyp or enanthate that I can run minimally with the deca before I start to counter-act any potential negative sexual side effects.

Again…all thoughts are welcome. I consider this forum an invaluable resource.

Stacking EQ and deca is not a wise idea. It is the same compound attached to different esters.

If you were going to use deca - you should have grabbed the sustanon. I hate sust, but it is a test blend that would work very well with the deca.

If you are going to do a single compound - get some test enanthate, and do 10 - 12 weeks of 500mg/week of test E.

Don’t mess with the 19-nor’s alone. Especially on the first cycle. Test is King.

But that is just my opinion. I could be wrong.