T Nation

Shutdown by Dose or Length?


I know I read this somewhere on here but I can't find it again. Your natural test production is shut down more based of the length of the cycle not the dose correct? So a 12 week test cycle at 500 mg/week would be harder to recover from than say an 8 weeker at 1g/week? Am I right?

The reason I'm asking is because I am starting to plan my second cycle. My first one was 500 mg's of sust a week for 8 weeks, and I didn't really like it at all. Didn't seem like the dose was sufficient.

I was thinking about doing Brook's tri-fecta but because my source has the high grade stuff, its all really pricey, and obviously good old test is the cheapest. So I was thinking about just doing an 8 week of test enanthate possibly up to 1g a week(gasp).

I know some guys are really against that high of a dose and some are all for it. If you guys think it's a bad idea I have no problem bumping it down to around 750 a week, Just looking for some input, thanks.


The only reason to fear 1 g/week testosterone is if having skin or other problems due to resulting high DHT or because of resulting too-high estrogen.

But both problems are solvable. Estrogen with an aromatase inhibitor, and DHT with dutasteride.

Differing users have different sensitivity to androgen level. For some 500 mg/week is very effective. There are even those who respond remarkably to much less than this. There are others who do not have as great sensitivity and for them 500 mg/week is not too satisfactory. It sounds as if you are in the latter category.

One will get more results with a cycle using enough of a dose for quite good gains that is of more moderate length than with a longer one that piddles around with a lower dosage not giving such good results, and recover more easily from the first as well.


Ok thanks Bill, always love to hear from you. Yah it was wierd for my sust cycle, I gained around 10 lbs, and I got some nice strength gains but I didn't even have to use an AI. Had no bloat, no gyno issues or anything.

So my theory might be flawed but I "hyopthesized" that if I wasn't seeing ANY side effects at that dose, it's possible that I wasn't seeing the real benefits either?


Alot of what i am about to say was learned from B.R both directly and indirectly anyway.. but here is what i can add.

I know that with suppression caused by androgen/estrogen levels (negative feedback) that FULL suppression is around the 3 week mark - now i cannot for the life of me remember which goes first and which later.. if it is one of the hormones of the hypothalamus or pituitary.. i know Bill Roberts will know as it was him i heard it from.. :wink:

I will add that in my experience of a number of different Nandrolones, that Organon Deca was by far the best and if you can get the real stuff i suggest you save up and do upto 400mg/wk of the stuff :wink:

I too also believe that higher doses over a shorter time are better, as i know BBB, lillguy, cortes and many other respected posters here do also at the moment..

I think that it would be better to use 1g over 6 weeks (6g), or 750mg over 8 weeks (6g) than 500mg over 12 weeks (6g) - Suppression is a MUST for any steroid assisted gains, it is just a question of how long.

Avoiding suppression is like avoiding max gains - i know YOU aren't trying to, but there are many kids reading this planning on their 25mg/d winstrol or 20mg/d var run for next summer.. :smiley:



thanks for posting Brook. Yah I was actually planning on using a test/deca combo to begin with. I guess it isn't as much the money thing but it's the fact that everyone keeps saying the recovery is much more difficult.

I haven't tried it before but doing the "taper" at the end of a cycle really does not appeal to me at all, and the general consensus seems to be that if you are going to use deca, you need to use the test taper.

I'd much rather just stick with the SERM pct if at all possible. If I use the taper it means I will probably have to buy another bottle of test just for my pct, whereas I can spend like $15 on some nolva.

Deca is $120 for 10 ml's
Test is $115 for 10 ml's