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Shugs' Blog - The Physique Clinics

If you have been following the Physique Clinics you gotta read this…

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2015427

Interesting read for a few reasons:

  1. IIRC, before the Clinic began he mentioned that fat clients make you look bad. I was surprised to hear this because it’s actually the opposite. Fat clients could lose multiple pounds of fat per week which makes for a dramatic overall change in a short time frame.

On the other hand guys trying to bulk-up don’t usually add pounds of muscle per week.

Fat loss is substantially easier and faster to do than muscle gain - it’s that simple. (Which points to the fact that programs claiming to “pack on slabs of beef in no time” are ridiculous; but that’s for another thread.)

  1. The way he presents Gregg’s potential reasons for lack of results is somewhat lopsided. Basically he quickly mentions that he may have a medical condition; but then explores in great detail that he might be selling his supplements or simply not be doing as told.

This is the same format he always uses when discussing this participant, which leads me to believe that he doesn’t really think he has a medical condition.

For Shug’s sake (and Gregg) I hope he’s right, because I’d feel like an ass if I spent most of my making false accusations.

Then again, he may not be doing as told; luckily I don’t have to make that judgment call.

  1. It’s too bad that ectos wanting to build muscle will be phased out (or reduced) from the clinics. For many of us the purpose of lifting and sucking down protein shakes is to build our bodies. If low appetite ectos (and I’m only using this term because Shugs did) aren’t producing results fast enough - then chose mesomorphs who want to gain muscle. Hell, the coaches can even cheat and put them on a 3 full body training sessions per week so we can watch them explode! (OK, I was being facetious with that last remark)

Definitely a great read…it’s good to see things from the coaches perspective.

Yet another unfortunate turn for the ectos as they were hoping for more ecto participants to pack on muscle. BTW, initially I thought CrewPierce was a mesomorph.

Also, I must add that Trojan made pretty good gains as an ectomorph in the short period of time that he was part of the clinic.

[quote]kgrig wrote:
BTW, initially I thought CrewPierce was a mesomorph.
[/quote]

When I first started lifting weights 4 or 5 years ago I was 150 at 6’3’’. Needless to say the muscle hasn’t come easily and I’ve put the most weight on at one time during this Physique Clinic.

[quote]kgrig wrote:
Definitely a great read…it’s good to see things from the coaches perspective.

Yet another unfortunate turn for the ectos as they were hoping for more ecto participants to pack on muscle. BTW, initially I thought CrewPierce was a mesomorph.

Also, I must add that Trojan made pretty good gains as an ectomorph in the short period of time that he was part of the clinic. [/quote]

Yeah. CrewPierce has done fine and I wouldn’t want to discount his progress. But Trojan had terrific gains for an ectomorph and made excellent progress. I think that’s evidence that the Clinic should embrace those types of people too. His was one of my favorite Clinics to follow while it existed.

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Needless to say the muscle hasn’t come easily and I’ve put the most weight on at one time during this PC.[/quote]

Therein lies the problem. Even if you were able to add a pound of muscle per week (note: I acknowledge that muscle gain isn’t linear, but let’s keep it simple) consistently for the 12 week, which is impressive, you would have only added 12 pounds at the end of the Clinic which, overall, doesn’t look impressive. Or at least it’s not a dramatic change from a side-by-side picture comparison.

So, what’s the proposed solution? Reduce the muscle gainers (I’m not using “ecto” anymore because it’s an around about way to describe those trying to gain muscle).

This approach is in line with the large population of clueless noobs, frat boys, whatever you want to call them; who want to start training “2 C their ABZ”, but aren’t willing to invest any time in doing the real work - building muscle.

That’s why guys like Dave Tate (pre-transformation) and others like him who have substantial muscle mass and fat are great for these kinds of competitions. To the untrained eye they look like blobs of fat, but in a few short months they look nothing short of spectacular.

Most likely these types of individuals will get recruited for the new clinic.

Oh, and an additional note, if Chris thinks it’s boring to read about muscle gainers not being able to eat enough he ought to be reminded that reading about fat guys describing their hunger pains isn’t exactly a joy either.

Personally I find it’s all an excuse to take the easy way out.

I’d have to disagree about his opinion of the ecto threads being less interesting. I thought that Trojan had the best thread going of the bunch. And it was his thread that got everyone else on the bandwagon posting about more than just numbers. Hell, I only started reading the other Clinics after getting caught up in his.

Speaking as a former skinny(still pretty small) guy and all the other small guys I see posting here daily, I think it would be crazy not to get a really eager Ecto involved. Sure, fat guys look more dramatic but I think it’s more of an accomplishment for the skinny guys. If I thought I would qualify, I would be all over the application for the next round. And, yes, yes, I know I’m biased but still, give the skinny-fat kids some hope!! hehe

Oh, and don’t get me wrong, I have enjoyed the other clinics and learned plenty from them. I just don’t want to see these Clinics turn into who can be the quick fix.

And with that…

I liked Shugart’s comment about CT giving skinny guys a crapload of vegetables to eat…

Where the bloody hell are the mesos ???
I want to see one of them it to be honest, all fat people are boring to be honest hearing about their hunger pangs aint riveting stuff and hearing ecto’s yelling ZOMG FOOD AAHHHHHHH (bring back trogan^^)
A meso is what we need !

I only read the fat loss Clinics… I agree, its just boring to read about the gainers. Its hard as fuck to gain pure muscle mass. And the progress is slow. And thats that… Maybe they could do a Dave Tate strength Clinic. That would be fucking awesome. No body weight goals, just goals on the big 3 lifts. I would read that, and I would love to participate.

Just stick with the fatties, its more fun to watch them progress and get the confidence.

Unless its a bulk with AAS :D… that would be exciting.

[quote]Corkonian wrote:
Where the bloody hell are the mesos ???
I want to see one of them it to be honest, all fat people are boring to be honest hearing about their hunger pangs aint riveting stuff and hearing ecto’s yelling ZOMG FOOD AAHHHHHHH (bring back trogan^^)
A meso is what we need ![/quote]

A meso Clinic wouldn’t help anyone, a true mesomorph wouldn’t typically need advice.

[quote]Protoculture wrote:
… Hell, the coaches can even cheat and put them on a 3 full body training sessions per week so we can watch them explode! (OK, I was being facetious with that last remark)[/quote]

lol

not picking skinny guys? what the fuck man. if they only pick one, im hoping its me. i messed up on my application though, i put i weighed 200 when im only in the low 190’s cause every damn scale i used was off by 5 or so lbs.

anyway theres a million shows on TV that show fat people losing weight, theres just as many skinny people as fat people, and you can make any newb stick gain weight by having him lift consistently for a month or two aslong as he eats. i want them to take me, an ecto who already put on some weight and dont look half bad to help me get to that next level.

I guess this boils down to what the purpose of the Clinics are.
To me they are a source of good information and inspiration and not entertainment. Yes it is good to see before and after pics of Gus and Bartl but actually getting something out of it is by following Clinics of the people who have the same challenges/goals as you.

That’s why it would be great to see an array of goals from weak guys wanting to put on muscle to fat guys wanting to lose fat(and combination of both). This way people can learn and closely follow what meets their needs.

It’s crazy how he finds the guy who is actually building a future as a bodybuilder gets labelled as “boring”. Shedding fat is easy once you have built a base. If he were interested in preserving this site’s bodybuilding mission statement (which is debatable at this point), he would be more interested in watching people build a base. Instead, kids read his shit and you’ve got 150 pounders “cutting” down to 150 from which to build. Like they have any sense of what it takes/looks like to build a body when they think they have too much fat at 150lbs.

I would’ve been stoked to see more skinny guys. I’m with Shugs on the diet advice to the ectos. Why weren’t they told to eat more calorie dense foods? That’s what Berardi recommends in Scrawny to Brawny.

This is a body building site. Building muscle should definitely be given priority over losing fat.

Trojan was selected because he sounded like an especially hard gainer. Crew joined the clinic saying he had plateaued. Now that kinda selection ain’t that intelligent if all you want is visible gains, but I reckon normal lean guys wouldn’t be so slow at gaining. And even 12 lbs of muscle would be a good visible difference for someone as skinny as me (just an example; I’m ineligible for the clinic).

[quote]engerland66 wrote:
If he were interested in preserving this site’s bodybuilding mission statement (which is debatable at this point), he would be more interested in watching people build a base. Instead, kids read his shit and you’ve got 150 pounders “cutting” down to 150 from which to build[/quote]

Incase you missed it, it’s now “World’s Largest Bodybuilding and Weight Loss Underground Nation”… no joke, http://www.T-Nation.com/ .

Fat people are here to stay.

pretty chubby girls, eh? COUNT ME IN!!! Not saying I am all that, but when I look in the mirror my face is the only thing that is half way decent looking on my body lol…ok, and maybe my toes…
Anyway,I signed up crosses fingers GL to those left still trying to reach there goals!

Below is a copy of testosterone.net’s 2001 mission statement.

I’ve taken the liberty to bold some text:

[quote]
Dangerously Hardcore!
The Testosterone mission statement
by Tim Patterson

Welcome to Testosterone, the website that almost charged the world’s highest subscriber fee! Huh? Why is a website, particularly one that focuses on muscle building and physique enhancement in general, bragging about almost becoming the most expensive site in the world? No, we haven’t fried our brains out by reading too many Joe Weider editorials (actually, we’re in withdrawal from not getting enough real training information).

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And, yes, we’ll sell our own Biotest line of unconditionally guaranteed supplements, including TRIBEX-500�?�, the only supplement in the world to contain FGP�?� (7-isopropoxyisoflavone), the long sought-after European estrogen-inhibitor; and Power Drive�?�, the product that can increase your strength dramatically within 30 minutes, in addition to improving your concentration and energy by leaps and bounds.

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Tim Patterson
Executive Editor[/quote]