T Nation

Shoulders the Day After Chest?


#1

Just wondering if anybody doing a 4 day a week split (2 on, 1 off, 2 on)has chest and shoulders on back to back days. Is this a big no no? I know it doesnt seem optimal because you're hitting front delts on consecutive days, but my problem is after benching my shoulders are fatigued and i end up getting less reps when i do something like military press afterwards. For example, a weight i know i can m.p. for 6 reps i'll only end up getting 4 at the most if i bench beforehand in the workout. It just leaves me feeling very disappointed. Yeah, i know i could just try it myself and find out, but i'd rather ask first.

(also please dont turn this into a "front delts dont need direct work" thread)


#2

I don't but if you feel good doing it then I reckon you should do it.


#3

I'd avoid it. Cressey would have a fit if he heard this.


#4

If you are pretty strong this can lead to overtraining pretty quick. Some can do it but most can not. Personally I would put 3 or 4 days between them.


#5

Trevor Smith (Beyond Failure Training) recommended doing shoulders/triceps the day after chest in order to give the whole pushing structure six days to recover.


#6

I personally could not do any sort of shoulder exercise after chest. I could do it but I'd be half-assing it.


#7

Agreed.

This week due to bad planning, I did Chest on Thurs and it left me with having shoulders/arms on Friday. I did one set of shoulders and ditched it, if you're pushing yourself with chest, I can't see how you can really push shoulders the next day.


#8

Yeah I wouldn't dream of doing them back-to-back like that, but then again I don't have the healthiest shoulders in the world either.

Maybe try it, and see how it works for you? I'm sure for a month ot two it wouldn't kill you...


#9

I do shoulders and chest on the same day. It goes like this:
flat dumbell bench
incline dumbell bench
decline dumbell bench
flyes

shoulder press
palms to me shoulder press
side lat raises
front lat raises

If I do shoulders before chest, then I can do a bit more weight/reps, but it's working, so whatever. I'm still seeing gains.

I figured that this was the same as training biceps on the same day as back. You pre-exhaust the biceps with rows/chins and then finish them off with direct work.
You pre-exhaust the shoulders with chest training and then finish them off with direct work.


#10

I normally train shoulders the day right after chest and back. Incidentally I also train my biceps and triceps on that same shoulders day. haha

There are people that believe it is a bad way to train -- and it may be for them -- but for me nothing has worked better.


#11

At the moment i am doing chest and shoulders on the same day.. i do 2 chest pressing exercises then i do 2 side delt moves - i am trying to bring them up..

Stick some rear delt after back and alls good.


#12

Sometimes my days gets jumbled up and I have to do shoulders the day after. Hasn't bothered me in the least. Probably isn't going to work for everyone though.


#13

I always try and train shoulders as soon as I can after chest. The reason being is that if I wait a few days after chest to do shoulders then by the time I rotate back to chest day I start to find that I begin to get weaker because my shoulders haven't fully recovered. So I usually train them the day after or the same day. Even if I'm a little weaker when I train them the same day as chest it doesn't matter because they still got worked pretty hard from all the heavy chest pressing.


#14

This is true. The fact that they are somewhat fatigued and you are lifting lighter weight if you do shoulders right after chest work on the same day does not mean they aren't taking a beating and getting the stimulus they need to grow. It's not like the work they did during your compound chest work doesn't 'count.'


#15

Try it for 6 weeks then for 6 week leave a few days between chest and shoulder training. I think you'll find that on average, it won't make that much difference with your progress. You're body will adapt to whatever you make it do. Consider doing chest the day after shoulders to see what that does.


#16

I don't see why you would train shoulders the day after chest, it's not really necassery to do so.

If you do:

  1. Back, Traps
  2. Rest
  3. Chest, Biceps
  4. Legs
  5. Rest
  6. Shoulders, Triceps
  7. Rest

You can get plenty of recovery between bodyparts, and there is no overlap allowing you to go into each session fresh and strong.


#17

Why so much redundancy in your program? There's no need to do all those chest exercises in one session.

-dizzle


#18

Yeah, thats pretty much dead on with the way my mind's thinking. Like because im doing less reps than i know im capable of on shoulder press i feel like im not doing enough. I guess its an ego thing, all i mainly care about is what im able to lift. So even if my shoulders feel like they took a beating if i didnt hit the amount of reps i wanted it still leaves me totally disgusted afterwards. Know what i mean?

I dont do much volume, and i usually just do 1 bench exercise for chest per workout (2 at the absolute most) since i'd be doing every muscle twice a week...so i think im going to try it out.


#19

Sorry, i failed to mention that i want every muscle twice a week. I could probably move and spread things around somehow to give a day in between but the way my schedule works a Tue/Wed Fri/Sat setup is optimal for me.


#20

If you want twice a week then go either upper lower or push/pull (legs go with pull). Working them on the same day is fine.