T Nation

Shoulders Like a Bull


Some guys rather have huge arms, while others prefer huge chests. My favourite are shoulders. I have always had big shoulders but i really want to get a strong broad mean kinda shoulders. Thats why i have bought some free weights.

I am planning on working my shoulders three times a week.
these are the exercises i would do:
Lateral raises
Front raises
Bent over laterals
Military presses.

How many sets and reps should i do to get the mass on??how much rest should i get in between?
thanks.

You’re never going to get huge shoulders doing front raises and side raises. They are not mass building exercises. To put on any upper body size you have to get stronger, which usually means getting bigger, eating more and doing heavy compound movements like bench and shoulder presses.

ok cool. shoulder presses are the ones when you push a barbell or dumbell over your head right?like a military press? what are the sets and reps that would be better?

[quote]WeaponXXX wrote:
ok cool. shoulder presses are the ones when you push a barbell or dumbell over your head right?like a military press?[/quote]

Military presses are nothing more than standing barbell shoulder presses.

[quote]WeaponXXX wrote:
ok cool. shoulder presses are the ones when you push a barbell or dumbell over your head right?like a military press? what are the sets and reps that would be better?[/quote]

There’s nothing wrong with lateral raises as long as you are doing some heavy overhead pressing too. My shoulders used to be one of my major weaknesses and I tried many strategies to combat this, my current direct shoulder training is:

Military Press (Turning into Push Press if I fail too early) - 5, 4, 3.

Lateral Raises - 5-8 to the front, 5-8 to the side & 8-12 to the rear.

Arnold Press - 5, 4, 3

W Press - 5, 4, 3.

The main point of this post is that I found what worked for me by experimenting and I believe this is the best way to find what works for you. Even if someone tells you exactly what exercises to do, what rep scheme to follow, how long to rest etc. what will you do if you have a workout which doesn’t go to plan? If you know why you do what you do rather than just following a template you will be able to adapt and still make the workout productive.

The only thing that’s ever made my lateral delts really notice that I wanted them to grow was negative only drop sets self spotted on my knees with a low pulley. I’m not kidding. And that with an extra mini session a week thrown in.

EDIT: One side at a time.

[quote]baretta wrote:
You’re never going to get huge shoulders doing front raises and side raises. They are not mass building exercises. To put on any upper body size you have to get stronger, which usually means getting bigger, eating more and doing heavy compound movements like bench and shoulder presses.[/quote]

Most people with huge shoulders do side raises and work their front delts. When did people start thinking these did NOT grow muscle? Why do you think this? Does this mean you aren’t doing these exercises yourself?

The one thing you are right about is growing ALL OVER. We’ve seen the OP’s pictures. His shoulders aren’t that broad. He needs to work on EVERYTHING and focusing that intently only on shoulders will be a great way to NEVER get them to get much bigger.

Most people with huge shoulders…have huge chests, backs, arms and everything else.

Yes, side laterals are needs as well as rear delt exercises. yes, overhead presses of some kind are also needed and they need to be done with enough weight to promote actual growth. the rest is diet, genetics and how attentive he is to every other body part.

[quote]IQ wrote:
WeaponXXX wrote:
ok cool. shoulder presses are the ones when you push a barbell or dumbell over your head right?like a military press? what are the sets and reps that would be better?

There’s nothing wrong with lateral raises as long as you are doing some heavy overhead pressing too. My shoulders used to be one of my major weaknesses and I tried many strategies to combat this, my current direct shoulder training is:

Military Press (Turning into Push Press if I fail too early) - 5, 4, 3.

Lateral Raises - 5-8 to the front, 5-8 to the side & 8-12 to the rear.

Arnold Press - 5, 4, 3

W Press - 5, 4, 3.

The main point of this post is that I found what worked for me by experimenting and I believe this is the best way to find what works for you. Even if someone tells you exactly what exercises to do, what rep scheme to follow, how long to rest etc. what will you do if you have a workout which doesn’t go to plan?

If you know why you do what you do rather than just following a template you will be able to adapt and still make the workout productive.[/quote]

Good post.

I may have a different name for it, but what’s a W press?

I dont understand how people misinterpreted the simple advice that says “Dont base your routine entirely around isolation movements” into meaning “Dont do any isolation movements, because they dont do anything.”

Last time I checked, Ronnie Coleman did curls, laterals, and front raises. Oh wait, nevermind, he got big arms and shoulders from deadlifting.

Svend Karlsen has big shoulders from lifting very heavy shit and eating like a bull.

Oh he does side and front raises to. with “bad form” and very cheated as well

[quote]KO421 wrote:
Svend Karlsen has big shoulders from lifting very heavy shit and eating like a bull.

Oh he does side and front raises to. with “bad form” and very cheated as well[/quote]

Clearly, he doesn’t know what he’s doing and the several posters here who never do isolation exercises could teach him a thing or two.

[quote]PF_88 wrote:
I may have a different name for it, but what’s a W press?[/quote]

It’s basically the same as a standard DB shoulder press but you push up and out so that your arms and head look like a ‘W’, you won’t be able to use as much weight as a standard DB shoulder press.

[quote]KO421 wrote:
Svend Karlsen has big shoulders from lifting very heavy shit and eating like a bull.

Oh he does side and front raises to. [/quote]

side raises and front raises to what? horizontal, 135 degrees, to failure…

[quote]IQ wrote:
PF_88 wrote:
I may have a different name for it, but what’s a W press?

It’s basically the same as a standard DB shoulder press but you push up and out so that your arms and head look like a ‘W’, you won’t be able to use as much weight as a standard DB shoulder press.[/quote]
The one press that I haved used and enjoyed success with is similar to this. All it is , is a DB press where the focus is to keep the forearms perpendicular to the flooras the press and the eccentric is performed. Causes a wide sweeping motion with great deltoid involvement with reduced triceps participation. Sounds similar.

[quote]WeaponXXX wrote:
Some guys rather have huge arms, while others prefer huge chests. My favourite are shoulders. I have always had big shoulders but i really want to get a strong broad mean kinda shoulders. Thats why i have bought some free weights.

I am planning on working my shoulders three times a week.
these are the exercises i would do:
Lateral raises
Front raises
Bent over laterals
Military presses.

How many sets and reps should i do to get the mass on??how much rest should i get in between?
thanks.[/quote]

Hello Mate, some good advice in this thread. Variation is the key. Don’t always do one exercise and you don’t even always have to use strict form eg. barbell shoulder presses v push presses, standing lateral raises v heavy cheat raises.

Push presses and heavy raises allow you to use much heavier weights and stress the muscle in a diferent way to the strict form versions.

There are loads of good shoulder routines on this site. Here are two that I know people who have used with good effect:

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-113-training

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-110-training

It is interesting to note that both routines rely heavily on various types of raises.

Don’t forget heavy upright rows. Especially with wrist straps, you can go heavy.

My shoulders got much wider from those. I prefer a slight forward lean too.

I think front laterals are a waste of time because bench pressing already works the front delts.

I tend to like upright rows more than side laterals.

And like others have said, don’t forget to overhead press!

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Don’t forget heavy upright rows. Especially with wrist straps, you can go heavy.

[/quote]

I’m not a huge fan of or totally anti upright rows like some folks, but I gotta say that doing em heavy enough to require straps sounds like a guaranteed shoulder problem sooner or later for a lot of people.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Your shoulders are almost the dead last place on your body to recieve fat of any kind. So naturally it is harder to make them broader and more bulky in general if you have no fat on them to build with.

I know, I’m new to the whole bodybuilding ordeal and have little room to talk in most of these forums but I have some useful info once in a blue moon.