T Nation

Shoulders & Lateral Raise Weights

I dont have large shoulders. My posterior delts however are less devoloped than my side laterals, however I find myself able to use more weight performing bent-over lateral raises compared to standing lateral raises. Is this common, or is this possibly because standing overhead presses before standing lateral raises have fatigued my side laterals more than posterior delts?

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I dont have large shoulders. My posterior delts however are less devoloped than my side laterals, however I find myself able to use more weight performing bent-over lateral raises compared to standing lateral raises. Is this common, or is this possibly because standing overhead presses before standing lateral raises have fatigued my side laterals more than posterior delts? [/quote]

Who knows? It’s not a big deal so long as you keep plugging away. People really, really need to stop overthinking this. Clay Hyght’s recent bodybuilding article pretty much sums up 75% of what someone needs to do to design a routine. After that it’s just effort, being confident in what you do, and stopping with inane worries!

Sounds like you could be going to heavy on bent over laterals…and you’re not really targeting the rear delts. Probably getting some traps, rhomboids, momentum, etc. in there instead.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I dont have large shoulders. My posterior delts however are less devoloped than my side laterals, however I find myself able to use more weight performing bent-over lateral raises compared to standing lateral raises. Is this common, or is this possibly because standing overhead presses before standing lateral raises have fatigued my side laterals more than posterior delts? [/quote]

Who knows? It’s not a big deal so long as you keep plugging away. People really, really need to stop overthinking this. Clay Hyght’s recent bodybuilding article pretty much sums up 75% of what someone needs to do to design a routine. After that it’s just effort, being confident in what you do, and stopping with inane worries![/quote]

Yeah, I am not worried about it, just wondering if normal

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Sounds like you could be going to heavy on bent over laterals…and you’re not really targeting the rear delts. Probably getting some traps, rhomboids, momentum, etc. in there instead. [/quote]

I’ll look at the form, I dont raise up at all, thinking maybe traps. Thanks

do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

that is all you need

partial swings for rear delts work too, I did 100reps the other day

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

that is all you need

partial swings for rear delts work too, I did 100reps the other day[/quote]

Damn! 100 reps. Well, whatever you’re doing is working, I’ll have to try it out. I saw a video I think you posted or someone posted about the partials you talked about in a different thread. I was going from full rom down to partials during my sets yesterday.

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

that is all you need

partial swings for rear delts work too, I did 100reps the other day[/quote]

Damn! 100 reps. Well, whatever you’re doing is working, I’ll have to try it out. I saw a video I think you posted or someone posted about the partials you talked about in a different thread. I was going from full rom down to partials during my sets yesterday. [/quote]

try high reps heavy partials, strap up

you dont need to go higher than 1/3 rep

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

I’m gonna do that.

OP, Stu (Pro) had an AWESOME post here a week or so ago. Here it is, in its entirety. Learn it, use it, love it:

[quote]
-Hit side delts first if you’re trying to enhance your width and ‘caps’.
-Don’t allow the DBs to move in front of your torso at the bottom part of the lateral ROM (totally removes stress from the medial head)
-While some people can go SLIGHTLY (a couple of inches) above parallel at the top ROM in order to get a tight contraction, too much will always engage your traps
-Leaning Away single arm laterals are a great exercise, so long as you get something out of your muscles by fighting the weight on the negatives. Otherwise you’re just swinging a weight that you can’t actually lift.
-On leaning away laterals, letting the weight move in front of your torso at the bottom will shift the stress away from the medial delt (similar to what occurs if you do the same during standing Db laterals)
-On bent over rear laterals (I’ve always done these facing down on an incline bench), pointing your thumbs down will really target your posterior heads, but if you have issues with your spinatus, just keep a palms down position
-On bent laterals, extend your elbows as much as possible in order to get the most out of lighter weights. Bending your elbows just shortens the ‘lever’ so you think your muscles are doing more work by the use of heavier dumbells.
-A limited ROM on bent lateral work will ensure your focus on keep tension on the very small rear delts, and not turning this into a back/lower trap exercise. I usually limit my ROM from straight out, to about 18" down - never allowing tension to dissipate from the target muscle.

With ^That out of the way, I usually order my exercises as such:

1st- STRICT laterals, either seated, or a machine so I don’t worry about too much weight stressing my wrists.
Next- Leaning away single arm laterals. I’m already toasted from the strict work, now I’ll cheat a bit on the concentric in order to really fight a weight I couldn’t handle strictly on the way down. Think of it like a little pre-exhaust, but with one muscle being addressed.
Third- Bent Laterals. I don’t worry so much about being the strongest mofo in the gym with these, and even on my “boy I feel strong” days, I’ll only use the 30’s. Strict, Strict, Strict!

After all of that, then I worry about doing my pressing work. I’ll either do just one pressing movement (usually seated DBs), or sometimes I’ll do a few sets of reverse presses to warm-up/pre-exhaust the anterior head, and then finish up with a few sets of seated DBs, or even push presses. [/quote]

OP

[quote]SSC wrote:
OP, Stu (Pro) had an AWESOME post here a week or so ago. Here it is, in its entirety. Learn it, use it, love it:

[quote]
-Hit side delts first if you’re trying to enhance your width and ‘caps’.
-Don’t allow the DBs to move in front of your torso at the bottom part of the lateral ROM (totally removes stress from the medial head)
-While some people can go SLIGHTLY (a couple of inches) above parallel at the top ROM in order to get a tight contraction, too much will always engage your traps
-Leaning Away single arm laterals are a great exercise, so long as you get something out of your muscles by fighting the weight on the negatives. Otherwise you’re just swinging a weight that you can’t actually lift.
-On leaning away laterals, letting the weight move in front of your torso at the bottom will shift the stress away from the medial delt (similar to what occurs if you do the same during standing Db laterals)
-On bent over rear laterals (I’ve always done these facing down on an incline bench), pointing your thumbs down will really target your posterior heads, but if you have issues with your spinatus, just keep a palms down position
-On bent laterals, extend your elbows as much as possible in order to get the most out of lighter weights. Bending your elbows just shortens the ‘lever’ so you think your muscles are doing more work by the use of heavier dumbells.
-A limited ROM on bent lateral work will ensure your focus on keep tension on the very small rear delts, and not turning this into a back/lower trap exercise. I usually limit my ROM from straight out, to about 18" down - never allowing tension to dissipate from the target muscle.

With ^That out of the way, I usually order my exercises as such:

1st- STRICT laterals, either seated, or a machine so I don’t worry about too much weight stressing my wrists.
Next- Leaning away single arm laterals. I’m already toasted from the strict work, now I’ll cheat a bit on the concentric in order to really fight a weight I couldn’t handle strictly on the way down. Think of it like a little pre-exhaust, but with one muscle being addressed.
Third- Bent Laterals. I don’t worry so much about being the strongest mofo in the gym with these, and even on my “boy I feel strong” days, I’ll only use the 30’s. Strict, Strict, Strict!

After all of that, then I worry about doing my pressing work. I’ll either do just one pressing movement (usually seated DBs), or sometimes I’ll do a few sets of reverse presses to warm-up/pre-exhaust the anterior head, and then finish up with a few sets of seated DBs, or even push presses. [/quote][/quote]

Awesome, thanks for posting that.

[quote]zraw wrote:

OP[/quote]

Thanks man.

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

that is all you need

partial swings for rear delts work too, I did 100reps the other day[/quote]

Partials for swings too? The last year or so I’ve incorporated partials more and love them but never would have thought to do swings that way. What is the range of motion that you use because it’s obviously working damn well for you? How heavy do you go relative to if you were using full ROM?

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

that is all you need

partial swings for rear delts work too, I did 100reps the other day[/quote]

Partials for swings too? The last year or so I’ve incorporated partials more and love them but never would have thought to do swings that way. What is the range of motion that you use because it’s obviously working damn well for you? How heavy do you go relative to if you were using full ROM?[/quote]

Last time I did hanging swings (chest resting on an inclined bench) I did 40lbs x 60reps dropped 20lbs x 30reps and then 12lbs x 10reps full rom

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
do partial laterals a la john meadows

thank me (and him) later[/quote]

that is all you need

partial swings for rear delts work too, I did 100reps the other day[/quote]

Partials for swings too? The last year or so I’ve incorporated partials more and love them but never would have thought to do swings that way. What is the range of motion that you use because it’s obviously working damn well for you? How heavy do you go relative to if you were using full ROM?[/quote]

Last time I did hanging swings (chest resting on an inclined bench) I did 40lbs x 60reps dropped 20lbs x 30reps and then 12lbs x 10reps full rom
[/quote]

That looks about as brutal as I thought it would. I will have to incorporate these into an upcoming cycle. Sounds like lactic acid hell but I like that.

how heavy are you going on the lateral raises? I tried 40 lbs yesterday without straps and felt I should’ve done more.

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
how heavy are you going on the lateral raises? I tried 40 lbs yesterday without straps and felt I should’ve done more.[/quote]

I use the 55s-60s when doing 30reps. Use straps, it allows you to not worry about your grip, at all

Yeah I’ll definitely use straps next time. I felt it more with my grip than anything else. I’m thinking 4x30 with ~40 lbs should work well. Thanks for the advice