T Nation

Shoulders in Westside

OK, so my goal is to increase full body strength for a strong man competition without having access to a truck to push or a place to keep/carry bags full of sand, no sled no rack, just wights, a cable pulldown and, the all fave, smith machine …

west side sounds great and all but it lacks shoulder training. how new is the idea to cycle overhead - bench press in a similar fashion as d-lift - squat?

what would be the best way to do that?

2 weeks bench + squat, followed but 2 weeks dead lift + shoulders?

doing both at the same day is kind of an overkill. you would get 10 exercises with all the support work and stabilization…

i have not done almost any shoulder work for a few weeks now with the WSFSB (west side for skinny bastards … tho i have 20% fat, irony …) and they are dieing little by little.

Not a direct answer to your question but check out these threads if you haven’t already.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/strongman_and_westside_training.htm
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/strongman_training_101.htm

Remember that the lifts are not set in stone. Use ME, RE and DE methods in whatever movements you feel important. Squatting is still important as GPP for a strongman, but you probably want to focus more on deadlifts. Also, do plenty of overhead pressing but you probably want to get a log or axle to press at some point.

For what it’s worth, when I went up to Murph’s gym in Boston (Total performanc e sports), they had the day’s workout on a markerboard and the ME lift was a max-out on the log press. Don’t remember the rest but obviously you can use any movements you want.

If you are training only for strongman, than you could just do variations of overhead, and bench as an assistance exercise. I know plenty of strongman that don’t train bench press at all. Jesse Marunde, for example, claims to have not done a single bench press in years.

Thing to remember with strongman is that strict pressing (military) and seated pressing won’t always bring up your log or axle press. Think push press/power jerk.

I’d even say modifying an olympic lifting split would be more successful for strongman, but I assume you have a reason (results) for wanting to modify westside.

Also, emphasize your repetition work. This is a given, but if you want to get good at the events, train like the events.

This could mean on repetition day (if you have one) go for AMRAP in under a minute, etc.

If overhead pressing big weights is not one of your goals (i.e. strongman/highland games competitor), than I don’t see the need to panic about stimulating shoulder growth. Bench/incline press give the shoulders plenty of stimulus. Add in some Db raises and high rep DB shoulder press as RE work and I don’t think you need to change the program design.

I train for strongman westside style, My ME Upper moves is always a overhead varation. I just started to throw in some bench work as assitance, mainly close grip and incline stuff.

I also think strict pressing is overrated if trying to get a monster overhead. Just learn how to do a good power jerk

i have almost a year to prepare my self for a strong man comp, so i’m keeping the AMRAP for the second half of it. i want to increase my strength in all four (bench, dlift, squat, clean&push) before that.

until then ill do more DE and ME then RE. (i’m a “little bit” weak … hope i can fix that in half a year…)

elitefts.com/../strongman_and_westside_training.htm - this has a lot of good info in it, thanks for the link.

looks like I’ll be doing less bench pressing and more shoulder pressing too…

well if they let you use your legs then why not train like that… the stiff legged shoulder press is for bodybuilding and nothing else IMO.

[quote]Kalle wrote:
I train for strongman westside style, My ME Upper moves is always a overhead varation. I just started to throw in some bench work as assitance, mainly close grip and incline stuff.

I also think strict pressing is overrated if trying to get a monster overhead. Just learn how to do a good power jerk[/quote]

I agree with above I do much the same only thing I dont agree on is the strict pressin I think its needed as well but you gotta spend a lot of time nailing the push press jerk etc but that strict pressing will help Its a balance I guess

Id look at Steve Mac’s log on elite as well check this link

http://www.totalperformancesports.com/articles.htm

Look ate the EFS and Strongman article, and well others there they should help. in the end make it fit you, get plenty of OH work and event work in general

Phill

thanks, that pretty much covers all i need to know. time for some heavy, bad ass, hardcore reading…

[quote]Phill wrote:
Kalle wrote:
I train for strongman westside style, My ME Upper moves is always a overhead varation. I just started to throw in some bench work as assitance, mainly close grip and incline stuff.

I also think strict pressing is overrated if trying to get a monster overhead. Just learn how to do a good power jerk

I agree with above I do much the same only thing I dont agree on is the strict pressin I think its needed as well but you gotta spend a lot of time nailing the push press jerk etc but that strict pressing will help Its a balance I guess

Id look at Steve Mac’s log on elite as well check this link

http://www.totalperformancesports.com/articles.htm

Look ate the EFS and Strongman article, and well others there they should help. in the end make it fit you, get plenty of OH work and event work in general

Phill[/quote]

Most good strongmen will tell you that strict press does not have great carryover to overhead.

I still think it is essential for shoulder health, however it should be used as a supplemental movement, and not as the main movement.

just to add to the conflict that’s about to emerge here …

savickas uses very little leg drive when overhead pressing. he likes to use “strength” not “technique” so it must have at least some effect…

but you can lift more with “technique”…

[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
If you are training only for strongman, than you could just do variations of overhead, and bench as an assistance exercise. I know plenty of strongman that don’t train bench press at all. Jesse Marunde, for example, claims to have not done a single bench press in years.

Thing to remember with strongman is that strict pressing (military) and seated pressing won’t always bring up your log or axle press. Think push press/power jerk.

I’d even say modifying an olympic lifting split would be more successful for strongman, but I assume you have a reason (results) for wanting to modify westside.[/quote]

for every strongman you can think of who does not bench, there is another who does. It’s an exercise, a training tool, not the be-all-end-all, nor the devil incarnate. You can do well without it, you can incorporate it and derive benefits.

[quote]sabaz wrote:
just to add to the conflict that’s about to emerge here …

savickas uses very little leg drive when overhead pressing. he likes to use “strength” not “technique” so it must have at least some effect…

but you can lift more with “technique”…[/quote]

Yes but his shoulders are as wide as a barn and the man is nearing 400lbs.

It takes ALONG time to devolp that level of brute strength. The quickest route to a big overhead is to get the technique down.

Brute strength is needed as well though, of course.