T Nation

Shoulder is Messed, Bicep Tendon?


#1

Hi everyone. First of all, my apologies if this thread has been repeated in the past.

I've been doing heavy reverse curls and lots more forearm work the past couple of weeks.

Early last week, my wrist has been hurting me when I extend it. It does not seem to be the muscle, but rather the tendon.

Fast forward to this past weekend, I was playing football and felt pain in my shoulder joint after about 30 mins of football. It wasn't tackle, just two hand touch. And I believe I aggravated by doing lax throws...if you know what I mean.

I am no footbaal expert by any means, but I throw pretty far...but not to say I throw with proper mechanics.

Anyways, my girlfriend, who does Ultrasound told me that it may be my bicep tendon that is fcuked.

It hurts when I do rotator cuff movements.

Anyone had similar experiences? Any solutions? I'm pretty much avoiding upper body movements until it heals...to be safe.


#2

[quote]chuckaboo86 wrote:
Hi everyone. First of all, my apologies if this thread has been repeated in the past.

I’ve been doing heavy reverse curls and lots more forearm work the past couple of weeks.

Early last week, my wrist has been hurting me when I extend it. It does not seem to be the muscle, but rather the tendon.

Fast forward to this past weekend, I was playing football and felt pain in my shoulder joint after about 30 mins of football. It wasn’t tackle, just two hand touch. And I believe I aggravated by doing lax throws…if you know what I mean.

I am no footbaal expert by any means, but I throw pretty far…but not to say I throw with proper mechanics.

Anyways, my girlfriend, who does Ultrasound told me that it may be my bicep tendon that is fcuked.

It hurts when I do rotator cuff movements.

Anyone had similar experiences? Any solutions? I’m pretty much avoiding upper body movements until it heals…to be safe.[/quote]

I tore my left biceps tendon and did not get it treated and rehabbed properly, and I have been paying for it ever since .

You should go see a physician as soon as possible, man.


#3

I have bicep tendinitis in my left arm. I feel the pain in the front of my shoulder, especially on pulldown movements. Throwing is a big no-no.

I hurt it at work, but I hear many get it from benching with rounded shoulders.

My doc was able to diagnose it in about 5 minutes, just go and have it checked.


#4

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#5

I stand corrected.


#6

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#7

I appreciate the feedback.

I definitely do NOT want to live with this lingering forever.

I have never been to a sports therapist or equal…and since I live in Canada, almost all “specialist” doctors have to be referred from your physician. And that usually takes MONTHS…since Health Care is free here, it takes a fricken long time to get treated properly.

I’ve booked a doctor’s appt for May 13th, guess I’ll put myself on the waiting list and do some “shoulder savers” exercises from Cressey.

That would wise, yeah?


#8

[quote]Itchy wrote:

I tore my left biceps tendon and did not get it treated and rehabbed properly, and I have been paying for it ever since .

You should go see a physician as soon as possible, man.
[/quote]

Damn Itchy,

I don’t think I have it as bad as you had it. If I tore it I would think I would be in 10x the pain.

How did you end finding out it was torn? Was it tears, doesn’t it usually internal bleed like crazy and cause red blotches in your arm?


#9

Not to get off-topic now but aren’t we ALL her to build a BETTER, FASTER, STRONGER body?

I feel as if I spent 4 years building my body to with-stand physically demanding sports, only to be injuried so easily on the field. My friends are all weak and skinny, yet they seem to be in better shoulder health then me. I was throwing a football for christ’s sakes.

I’ve always done shoulders safely. I don’t do upright rows and I warm up with rotator cuff movements. I usually mix my shoulders with heavy pressing movements and lateral/ front/ rear delt raises, flies.

Hyperthrophy wise, my shoulders are better developed than my chest.

I know that the shoulder joint is very complicated…would even be wise to train them 1 - 2 times/ week? may be just doing direct shoulder work every other week?


#10

[quote]chuckaboo86 wrote:
Itchy wrote:

I tore my left biceps tendon and did not get it treated and rehabbed properly, and I have been paying for it ever since .

You should go see a physician as soon as possible, man.

Damn Itchy,

I don’t think I have it as bad as you had it. If I tore it I would think I would be in 10x the pain.

How did you end finding out it was torn? Was it tears, doesn’t it usually internal bleed like crazy and cause red blotches in your arm?[/quote]

No, mine was not a bad tear, thank God. There was no bruising, no outward sign of injury.

I waited too long to go to the doctor, not realizing what kind of problem I had.

That was over a year ago and I still cannot do a bench press with a full range of motion, nor can I put up nearly as much wait on presses in general. I also have trouble supinating my left wrist and getting a hard contraction in my left biceps and it really pisses me off.


#11

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

But, are you happy with the diagnosis of biceps tendonitis from a medical doctor? I suggest that it’s not likely to be as simple as that. There should be a cause that you can try and rectify, eg, weak RC muscles, forcing overcompensation by the long head of biceps in an attempt to stabilise the GH joint.

BBB[/quote]

He referred me to a physical therapist. He thought I should go to a clinic that had… radiowave treatment? I’m not sure, it was something like that. I haven’t been able to go yet, what would you recommend?

Physio?

ART?

Chiro?

I’ve had it for years now, and definitely hurt it at sea. I was in tears after some of those watches, lol. It’s not all that bad now though, I work around it.


#12

[quote]chuckaboo86 wrote:
Not to get off-topic now but aren’t we ALL her to build a BETTER, FASTER, STRONGER body?

I feel as if I spent 4 years building my body to with-stand physically demanding sports, only to be injuried so easily on the field. My friends are all weak and skinny, yet they seem to be in better shoulder health then me. I was throwing a football for christ’s sakes.
[/quote]

Yeah, shit happens, dude. And I think it happens more the older you get.

[quote]
I’ve always done shoulders safely. I don’t do upright rows and I warm up with rotator cuff movements. I usually mix my shoulders with heavy pressing movements and lateral/ front/ rear delt raises, flies.

Hyperthrophy wise, my shoulders are better developed than my chest.

I know that the shoulder joint is very complicated…would even be wise to train them 1 - 2 times/ week? may be just doing direct shoulder work every other week?[/quote]

Training shoulders hard once per week is plenty IMO.


#13

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#14

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#15

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Itchy wrote:
Training shoulders hard once per week is plenty IMO.

No offence, but this statement angers me a little. It takes ZERO account of the type of training Vs techniques Vs biomechanics Vs the patients injury.

“Oh yeah, just train heavy once per week and you’ll be OK”.

I don’t agree, sorry.

Firstly, the OP needs to accurately ascertain the TRUE nature of his injury (likely to involve supraspinatus since it was done whilst throwing - a common link). Generic injuries lead to generic ‘treatment’ which is far from optimal, especially for an athlete.

Secondly, he needs good, appropriate treatment, customised to the nature of the injury.

Thirdly he needs to eaxamine his shoulder musculature for weakness/incorrect biomechanics and learn to correct any issues, either by neuromuscular reprogramming (spinal reflex level actions) and/or muscular strengthening of weak muscles (most likely the RC and scapular stabilisers).

Fourthly, he needs to incorporate this into both his gym technique as well as his playing technique, so that it truly becomes ingrained.

So in summary.

  1. Accurate diagnosis
  2. Appropriate treatment
  3. Correction of faulty biomechanics
  4. Incorporation of corrected biomechanics

This sort of stuff takes a while, but with an athlete is definitely worth it, to prolong sporting lifetime.

The recreational lifter may choose to go with the generic diagnosis and treatment and forego the biomechanical assesment and correction. They will likely reinjure themselves because the root cause of the injury mechanism has not been addressed.

Of course, if the injury mechanism is from acute trauma (as opposed to the other two mechanisms of injury; repetitive micro-loading or tissue creep), then there may not be a biomechanical component. Having said that, where a once-biomechanically-correct individual sustains a traumatic injury, he or she may well develop biomechanical issues, depending on the nature of the injury and the time to treatment/injury resolution.

So, to offer a final opinion, the very least one should do is to incorporate some shoulder prehab exercises at least once per week.

Personally, I do ‘prone Ys’ (for lower/middle traps and rhomboids, ‘facepulls’, ‘sword and seatbelt’ exercises with a resistance band and then internal and external rotations with a cable stack, humerus in three different positions.

I won’t do them all in one week, but I’ll do at least 2 exercises at the end of a leg or back session, twice per week.

Aside from nothing else, working the RC muscles does seem to have some aesthetic carryover to the appearance of the shoulders. The only muscle not visible is the subscapularis; the others are visible and benefit from some direct work.

BBB[/quote]

Dude, I didn’t even read this post. I was answering a general type question with a general type answer. He asked if it was “0kay” to train his shoulders less frequently.

I don’t have to know anything else about him to know that backing off shoulder training a little isn’t likely to hurt him.

I never said he shouldn’t get a proper diagnosis and rehab.


#16

[quote]chuckaboo86 wrote:
Hi everyone. First of all, my apologies if this thread has been repeated in the past.

I’ve been doing heavy reverse curls and lots more forearm work the past couple of weeks.

Early last week, my wrist has been hurting me when I extend it. It does not seem to be the muscle, but rather the tendon.

Fast forward to this past weekend, I was playing football and felt pain in my shoulder joint after about 30 mins of football. It wasn’t tackle, just two hand touch. And I believe I aggravated by doing lax throws…if you know what I mean.

I am no footbaal expert by any means, but I throw pretty far…but not to say I throw with proper mechanics.

Anyways, my girlfriend, who does Ultrasound told me that it may be my bicep tendon that is fcuked.

It hurts when I do rotator cuff movements.

Anyone had similar experiences? Any solutions? I’m pretty much avoiding upper body movements until it heals…to be safe.[/quote]

Don’t simply assume biceps tendonitis. That’s what I thought and just came back from the doctor - turns out it is supraspinatus tendonitis. It looks like it’s just that; no tear or anything so the treatment is relatively simple for now (ice, rest, antiinflams plus a few rehab type of movements). I’ll probably train lower body just because.

If it doesn’t get better by next week I’ll have scans and other things done.

BUT, in your case, there could be a tear or number of things like BBB said. Go see a good doctor and you’ll be sure. Rest and ice till then. Hope this helps.

edit: [rant] fuck the smith machine, i’m sticking to dumbells [/rant]


#17

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Itchy wrote:
Training shoulders hard once per week is plenty IMO.

No offence, but this statement angers me a little. It takes ZERO account of the type of training Vs techniques Vs biomechanics Vs the patients injury.

“Oh yeah, just train heavy once per week and you’ll be OK”.

I don’t agree, sorry.

Firstly, the OP needs to accurately ascertain the TRUE nature of his injury (likely to involve supraspinatus since it was done whilst throwing - a common link). Generic injuries lead to generic ‘treatment’ which is far from optimal, especially for an athlete.

Secondly, he needs good, appropriate treatment, customised to the nature of the injury.

Thirdly he needs to eaxamine his shoulder musculature for weakness/incorrect biomechanics and learn to correct any issues, either by neuromuscular reprogramming (spinal reflex level actions) and/or muscular strengthening of weak muscles (most likely the RC and scapular stabilisers).

Fourthly, he needs to incorporate this into both his gym technique as well as his playing technique, so that it truly becomes ingrained.

So in summary.

  1. Accurate diagnosis
  2. Appropriate treatment
  3. Correction of faulty biomechanics
  4. Incorporation of corrected biomechanics

This sort of stuff takes a while, but with an athlete is definitely worth it, to prolong sporting lifetime.

The recreational lifter may choose to go with the generic diagnosis and treatment and forego the biomechanical assesment and correction. They will likely reinjure themselves because the root cause of the injury mechanism has not been addressed.

Of course, if the injury mechanism is from acute trauma (as opposed to the other two mechanisms of injury; repetitive micro-loading or tissue creep), then there may not be a biomechanical component. Having said that, where a once-biomechanically-correct individual sustains a traumatic injury, he or she may well develop biomechanical issues, depending on the nature of the injury and the time to treatment/injury resolution.

So, to offer a final opinion, the very least one should do is to incorporate some shoulder prehab exercises at least once per week.

Personally, I do ‘prone Ys’ (for lower/middle traps and rhomboids, ‘facepulls’, ‘sword and seatbelt’ exercises with a resistance band and then internal and external rotations with a cable stack, humerus in three different positions.

I won’t do them all in one week, but I’ll do at least 2 exercises at the end of a leg or back session, twice per week.

Aside from nothing else, working the RC muscles does seem to have some aesthetic carryover to the appearance of the shoulders. The only muscle not visible is the subscapularis; the others are visible and benefit from some direct work.

BBB[/quote]

Good stuff.

i’ve been doing:
Personally, I do ‘prone Ys’ (for lower/middle traps and rhomboids, ‘facepulls’, ‘sword and seatbelt’ exercises with a resistance band and then internal and external rotations with a cable stack, humerus in three different positions.

I usually do it in the beginning of my shoulder workout. I find that my shoulder “clicks” less when I do warm up with RC exercises.

I am feeling better today. I will continue to monitor it and take another day off from upper body exercises. If it acts up again when I do weights, I’ll advise my doctor on May 13th.

Thanks for the advice BBB


#18

[quote]theceka wrote:

Don’t simply assume biceps tendonitis. That’s what I thought and just came back from the doctor - turns out it is supraspinatus tendonitis. It looks like it’s just that; no tear or anything so the treatment is relatively simple for now (ice, rest, antiinflams plus a few rehab type of movements). I’ll probably train lower body just because.

If it doesn’t get better by next week I’ll have scans and other things done.

BUT, in your case, there could be a tear or number of things like BBB said. Go see a good doctor and you’ll be sure. Rest and ice till then. Hope this helps.

edit: [rant] fuck the smith machine, i’m sticking to dumbells [/rant][/quote]

Yeah I never do the smith machine…but I do do a lot of the Hammer Strength ones…still in a fixed plane of motion.

It’s hard to get DB that are over 70 lbs in an upright position for 5 - 8 sets.


#19

[quote]chuckaboo86 wrote:
Yeah I never do the smith machine…but I do do a lot of the Hammer Strength ones…still in a fixed plane of motion.

It’s hard to get DB that are over 70 lbs in an upright position for 5 - 8 sets. [/quote]

I’m not really using 70+ but close enough to understand that it would be hard to do alone.
It’s just that no matter how much I twist and turn and adjust, I have that uncomfortable feeling in my shoulders when I work in the smith.
To be perfectly honest, before the injury, I did more volume than I usually do and felt my form was a little off on my db incline presses. I usually do one all out set on the smith and that’s it.

But just psychologically, I’ll stay away from the smith for a while I think. I hate injuries.

Hope you get better soon.


#20

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