T Nation

Shoulder Injury

Decline benching 2 weeks to the day ago and felt a sharp pain in my right shoulder, anterior delt and pec junction area. Gave it a week off. Unracked 135 on incline one week ago. It didn’t feel right so I racked it and went home. Today I can do push ups off the kitchen counter, but I start to feel some dull discomfort by about rep 5.

I’m 8 weeks into a test and deca cycle, 700 and 450 respectively. Was thinking about either just doing test at 350 and mast at 425 so I can at least look good for the summer, or just add the mast and keep the doses of deca and test the same since I guess I could recover soon. I really don’t know how long this is going to take.

Any suggestions on diet and training? I guess just maintenance and take it easy for awhile? Or maybe slight increase in cals so I can work on weaknesses? I just don’t want to lose a lot of my pec and delt size and strength as they were stagnant for so long and they were growing fast.

Also, all orthopedic testing for rotator cuff injury was negative (future doc here).

EDIT: Just tried to dumbbell bench with 25lbs and it hurt. overhead pressing a 25lb DB didn’t bother it so I guess it is really my pec.

as a “future Doc” i assume your aware the gear don’t do squat for you tendons or ligaments eh?
And pardon the pun, but it would be a shame to waste your cash, let alone the shutting down of your own endocrine system (right doc),so my advice would be ramp up the squats so its not a total waste. Or just push through the pain and do some serious damage to tendons and ligaments.

LB

[quote]LBramble wrote:
as a “future Doc” i assume your aware the gear don’t do squat for you tendons or ligaments eh?
And pardon the pun, but it would be a shame to waste your cash, let alone the shutting down of your own endocrine system (right doc),so my advice would be ramp up the squats so its not a total waste. Or just push through the pain and do some serious damage to tendons and ligaments.

LB[/quote]

It isn’t a tendon or ligament; I never thought it was. If you read further you would seen that it is pec minor. I’m already on trt. It would be a shame…if this lasted a long time. I could be better next week, or in two months. I don’t know the extent of the damage and don’t have insurance right now to get an MRI. Wanted to see if other people have had a similar experience so I can get an idea of what to expect.

Thanks for the valuable advice.

OK,now i’m confused.

I’m not familiar with the 25 lb DB overhead press as a muscle vs. ligament/tendon injury test.
I do know that i could do a 25 lb DB OHP with no pain when i had an over-calicified AC joint that they had to go in and saw a half-inch off so i could throw a straight left cross again (i’m a southpaw).

I’m no doctor, but from experience i know the difference in feel as to whether i have simple strained a muscle or did damage to the tendon/ligament, which all muscles have, even the “pec minor”.
And i do know that a tendon/ligament will take alot longer to heal than a muscle injury will. And that was my point. If your on the gear and you simply strain your “pec minor” then you should recover a helluva lot faster than i would.But if you strained the tendon or ligament attached to the “pec minor” then the gear ain’t gonna do squat to help heal it any faster.
In which case your lookin at 6-8 weeks.

I hope its a simple muscle strain.

tell me with a straight face you got a trt script for Deca. thats funny.

LB

If youre a future doc you should know to stick to your specialty, unless you happen to be doing your fellowship in sports medicine and you arent in first year as I suspect.

Go see a sport med doc or orthopaedic resident and tell me their reaction when they do a crank test or anterior capsule test.

Look in your books at SLAP lesion and, what I think it is, Bankart lesion.

No one could possibly tell you what to do with your diet and training without seeing you. You’ve essentially told us your shoulder hurts while bench pressing which narrows it down to probably 20 different things.

The future doc comment was weird, if you’re going to drop that bomb on us then at least say which orthos you actually did. Maybe a ROM study on the shoulder would be more valuable to us than pressing a dumbbell laterally then vertically.

Another person wants an MRI–why? Why pay hundreds of dollars for something that is diagnostic? If orthos lead to the suspicion of something that could require surgical intervention, then you get an MRI. Or, if conservative intervention is not effective after 4 weeks or so then consider further imaging. I cannot understand the mentality of ouchie --> MRI --> ???. The price of an MRI alone pays for a lot of therapy.

[quote]LBramble wrote:
OK,now i’m confused.

I’m not familiar with the 25 lb DB overhead press as a muscle vs. ligament/tendon injury test.
I do know that i could do a 25 lb DB OHP with no pain when i had an over-calicified AC joint that they had to go in and saw a half-inch off so i could throw a straight left cross again (i’m a southpaw).

I’m no doctor, but from experience i know the difference in feel as to whether i have simple strained a muscle or did damage to the tendon/ligament, which all muscles have, even the “pec minor”.
And i do know that a tendon/ligament will take alot longer to heal than a muscle injury will. And that was my point. If your on the gear and you simply strain your “pec minor” then you should recover a helluva lot faster than i would.But if you strained the tendon or ligament attached to the “pec minor” then the gear ain’t gonna do squat to help heal it any faster.
In which case your lookin at 6-8 weeks.

I hope its a simple muscle strain.

tell me with a straight face you got a trt script for Deca. thats funny.

LB [/quote]

Thanks. I narrowed it down to pec minor based on the actions of the muscles in that area as well as the distribution of the pain. I did not get a script for deca. I said I am on trt to imply that I am already shut down and am not worried about endocrine effects.

[quote]dzmendon wrote:
If youre a future doc you should know to stick to your specialty, unless you happen to be doing your fellowship in sports medicine and you arent in first year as I suspect.

Go see a sport med doc or orthopaedic resident and tell me their reaction when they do a crank test or anterior capsule test.

Look in your books at SLAP lesion and, what I think it is, Bankart lesion.[/quote]

Fourth year osteopathic student actually. We get quite a bit more orthopedic training than most MD students. Knowing how to diagnose ortho lesions without expensive tests is intrinsic to being a DO. Both tests you mentioned were performed with no issue. Pain is medial to the glenoid and runs down the side of the pec so slap lesion is likely not the cause.

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
No one could possibly tell you what to do with your diet and training without seeing you. You’ve essentially told us your shoulder hurts while bench pressing which narrows it down to probably 20 different things.

The future doc comment was weird, if you’re going to drop that bomb on us then at least say which orthos you actually did. Maybe a ROM study on the shoulder would be more valuable to us than pressing a dumbbell laterally then vertically.

Another person wants an MRI–why? Why pay hundreds of dollars for something that is diagnostic? If orthos lead to the suspicion of something that could require surgical intervention, then you get an MRI. Or, if conservative intervention is not effective after 4 weeks or so then consider further imaging. I cannot understand the mentality of ouchie --> MRI --> ???. The price of an MRI alone pays for a lot of therapy.[/quote]

There are quite a few tests all of which focus on the rotator cuff muscles as well as tendons, bicep tendon and tests to rule out dislocations, etc. Essentially I ran the gauntlet on that area and had no positive tests. In all honesty I don’t want an MRI. I don’t think it will tell me anything as I don’t believe I have a significantly torn muscle, tendon or ligament. Plus, I don’t have insurance anyway so I wouldn’t fork up the cash to do it.

[quote]jt339 wrote:

[quote]dzmendon wrote:
If youre a future doc you should know to stick to your specialty, unless you happen to be doing your fellowship in sports medicine and you arent in first year as I suspect.

Go see a sport med doc or orthopaedic resident and tell me their reaction when they do a crank test or anterior capsule test.

Look in your books at SLAP lesion and, what I think it is, Bankart lesion.[/quote]

Fourth year osteopathic student actually. We get quite a bit more orthopedic training than most MD students. Knowing how to diagnose ortho lesions without expensive tests is intrinsic to being a DO. Both tests you mentioned were performed with no issue. Pain is medial to the glenoid and runs down the side of the pec so slap lesion is likely not the cause.
[/quote]

Good thing Im not an MD student then, Im a CAT(CC) and my supervisor is a DO(MP), ATC, and CAT©. If its pec minor do you have pain with deep inhalation or scap setting? How have you ruled out the Bankart lesion, what is capsular stability like, how is dynamic stabilization etc etc.

As for your questions about diet you should know this: you arent going to heal very well on a caloric deficit, get enough (increase possibly) protein, and since youre a DO you should know about inflammatory body states and how to manage that to promote healing…

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

[quote]jt339 wrote:

[quote]dzmendon wrote:
If youre a future doc you should know to stick to your specialty, unless you happen to be doing your fellowship in sports medicine and you arent in first year as I suspect.

Go see a sport med doc or orthopaedic resident and tell me their reaction when they do a crank test or anterior capsule test.

Look in your books at SLAP lesion and, what I think it is, Bankart lesion.[/quote]

Fourth year osteopathic student actually. We get quite a bit more orthopedic training than most MD students. Knowing how to diagnose ortho lesions without expensive tests is intrinsic to being a DO. Both tests you mentioned were performed with no issue. Pain is medial to the glenoid and runs down the side of the pec so slap lesion is likely not the cause.
[/quote]

Good thing Im not an MD student then, Im a CAT(CC) and my supervisor is a DO(MP), ATC, and CAT©. If its pec minor do you have pain with deep inhalation or scap setting? How have you ruled out the Bankart lesion, what is capsular stability like, how is dynamic stabilization etc etc.

As for your questions about diet you should know this: you arent going to heal very well on a caloric deficit, get enough (increase possibly) protein, and since youre a DO you should know about inflammatory body states and how to manage that to promote healing…[/quote]

It does seem that a fourth year osteopathic student should know the answer to his question.