[quote]gato10 wrote:
Actually I think that’s exactly what most are saying; that they have seen better shoulder development/progress when using isolation exercises . Regardless of what you think is best, it just isn’t for some. On a secondary note it seems to me that you’re trying to convince uomething you believe, not actually taking what we say and turning it into a legitimate discussion. If you wanna know why we do laterals I’d guess its because most of us can’t feel our medial head work as much on compound lifts (regardless of grip position).[/quote]
There is no such thing as beliefs in exercise physiology and mechanics. Muscles have one function, that’s it.
Straight arm pulldowns to isolate the lats when your biceps fail first in other pulling movements. Just an example. Why could the same not be true for the delts?
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
youngster543210, can you post pictures showing how effective your approach has been for you?[/quote]
I think you accidentally missed my post.[/quote]
No, that’s subjective and cannot effectively be used as rhetoric. Besides I’m my tablet and don’t have any pictures available to upload. But I have more impressive lifts than you. Check out my YouTube channel of the same name as my nation profile and you can view a 565 pound raw squat at 20 years old as well as a 625 deadlift …oh yeah and drug free at 198.
Straight arm pulldowns to isolate the lats when your biceps fail first in other pulling movements. Just an example. Why could the same not be true for the delts?
[/quote]
The biceps do not extend the shoulder joint. If your biceps are fatiguing during pulling exercises you are doing them wrong.
[quote]gato10 wrote:
I know its going to sounds cliche, but certain exercises work better for certain people. You’re asking what we think about the generic routines, and more specifically why those of us that do lateral raises do them. When they answered cause they work, how are you going to argue that they don’t for that person? Personally I stick with one compound, 2/3 lateral and 1/2 rear. Just depends on the goal for the day. I don’t think a person can develop an aesthetic shoulder without ISO movements. [/quote]
The best exercise for everyone is the one that allows for the most consistant progress. No one could make the argument that they can make better progress on laterals than a compound movement.[/quote]
Dude WTF?
It’s an isolation exercise how DOESN’t it work? Nobody said they don’t do compounds for their lateral delts, they do lateral raises to enhance their medial delts. If I do a bench press or Military Press I don’t say well I’m a make sure I don’t use my medial deltoid because I’m going to do lateral raises later. Its a COMPOUND exercise it hits the whole area. Guess what? Successful lifters do compounds combined with isolation exercises for nearly every muscle group.
[quote]gato10 wrote:
I know its going to sounds cliche, but certain exercises work better for certain people. You’re asking what we think about the generic routines, and more specifically why those of us that do lateral raises do them. When they answered cause they work, how are you going to argue that they don’t for that person? Personally I stick with one compound, 2/3 lateral and 1/2 rear. Just depends on the goal for the day. I don’t think a person can develop an aesthetic shoulder without ISO movements. [/quote]
The best exercise for everyone is the one that allows for the most consistant progress. No one could make the argument that they can make better progress on laterals than a compound movement.[/quote]
Dude WTF?
It’s an isolation exercise how DOESN’t it work? Nobody said they don’t do compounds for their lateral delts, they do lateral raises to enhance their medial delts. If I do a bench press or Military Press I don’t say well I’m a make sure I don’t use my medial deltoid because I’m going to do lateral raises later. Its a COMPOUND exercise it hits the whole area. Guess what? Successful lifters do compounds combined with isolation exercises for nearly every muscle group.
Stop smokin dat shit[/quote]
The function. Of the. Medial deltoid. Is too. Abduct. The humerus.
We call lateral raises an isolation exercise because that’s what they’ve always been called and we have no better word to put to them. That doesn’t mean it makes sense. Its just lateral abduction of the humerus with the arm straight (as if the orientation of the forearm has anything to do with the activation of the medial deltoid). Keeping the arm straight does only one thing…increases the lever arm making the exercise harder to progress. Progressive tension overload is what builds muscle and progressive tension overload is more easily applied to upright rows than laterals. Or a “isolation” exercise if you will . that’s all I’m saying you don’t have to do it. But those are the facts and cannot be objectively argued against.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Well, which compound exercise hammers away at the side or rear delts?[/quote]
Upright rows with a wide grip or with dumbells and rear delt rows/face pulls. There’s no such think as an “isolation” movement for a muscle located on the torso. There’s no reason to ever keep your arm straight during an exercise.[/quote]
I’ll tell you why. Adding the bicep or other muscles just to do more weight does nothing for the medial delt.
Sure upright rows may be good for the medial delt and if they work for you then do them.
the lateral raise in different angles and ranges of motion and rep schemes is more effective IMO
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Well, which compound exercise hammers away at the side or rear delts?[/quote]
Upright rows with a wide grip or with dumbells and rear delt rows/face pulls. There’s no such think as an “isolation” movement for a muscle located on the torso. There’s no reason to ever keep your arm straight during an exercise.[/quote]
I’ll tell you why. Adding the bicep or other muscles just to do more weight does nothing for the medial delt.
Sure upright rows may be good for the medial delt and if they work for you then do them.
the lateral raise in different angles and ranges of motion and rep schemes is more effective IMO[/quote]
The biceps do not contribute to the abduction of the humerus, you can do more weight because the lever arm is not as long in an upright row, I’ve said that multiple times.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Fact : ive done upright rows for the lateral head when I was DCing and didnt have good delts
Fact : Im doing lateral raises or partial lateral raises and i have good delts
Fact : This thread is lol[/quote]
The claims you have made in this post don’t hold any water in this discussion. So many other factors must be evaluated. Lateral abduction of the humerus with your arms straight does not create a better training stimulus than abduction with a bend in the elbow. Nor does it allow for as consistant progress. Your claims are subjective n nature and do not provide legitimate facts.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Fact : ive done upright rows for the lateral head when I was DCing and didnt have good delts
Fact : Im doing lateral raises or partial lateral raises and i have good delts
Fact : This thread is lol[/quote]
I am hoping that when he posts his photo, he will look better than you. Otherwise, I am unsure what his proof would be that this is effective.[/quote]
Basic knowledge of physiology and biomechanics is all the proof I need.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Fact : ive done upright rows for the lateral head when I was DCing and didnt have good delts
Fact : Im doing lateral raises or partial lateral raises and i have good delts
Fact : This thread is lol[/quote]
I am hoping that when he posts his photo, he will look better than you. Otherwise, I am unsure what his proof would be that this is effective.[/quote]
Basic knowledge of physiology and biomechanics is all the proof I need. [/quote]
Dude your a funny guy…with all your knowledge you should start writing articles for this site lol. Funny thing is the guys your debating this with aren’t scarred to post pics… funny guy
No videos just comments after comments on youtube. Well at least I finally found the type of person that comments on youtube, i mean seriously who does that?
[quote]zraw wrote:
Fact : ive done upright rows for the lateral head when I was DCing and didnt have good delts
Fact : Im doing lateral raises or partial lateral raises and i have good delts
Fact : This thread is lol[/quote]
I am hoping that when he posts his photo, he will look better than you. Otherwise, I am unsure what his proof would be that this is effective.[/quote]
Basic knowledge of physiology and biomechanics is all the proof I need. [/quote]
Dude your a funny guy…with all your knowledge you should start writing articles for this site lol. Funny thing is the guys your debating this with aren’t scarred to post pics… funny guy[/quote]Okay fine, you broke me down haha
…oh yeah and drug free at 198.