Shoulder Dominance on the Bench Press

Yeah, it’s happened to myself and a training buddy of mine, and I’m not complaining but wanted to seek out and possibly share some advice. Training partner and I started 531 around two years ago and have since jumped a couple programs. The thing that stuck with us from 531 was a love for strict press, so much love that we eventually found our shoulders taking over for our chest in bench press, to the point it literally felt like the bench was primarily shoulders and triceps.

Traditional technique, like trying to pull the bar apart seems to get the shoulders even more involved. We got a tip from another big contributor from these forums for the sake of getting the chest back involved in the bench press and it seems to have helped/ that is trying to activate the pecs by pushing the bar together rather than trying to pull it apart. Before I go giving this tip away, I’m wondering if it is really sound advice.

Pulling the bar apart - that’s a myth. Don’t believe that. Lifts like the bench and squat are not done with muscles in mind, rather with a MOVEMENT in mind. And where you “feel” a movement is arbitrary. It’s about pushing the boundaries on a number not a pectoral.

I have often wondered that myself. I read about pulling the bar apart a little while back and it seemed to make it harder for me, so I stopped. If anything I am trying to do the opposite of that, but my bench is very chest dominant.

Why would you want to involve your chest more? If you chest is involved less you feel, but if your bench is going up what’s the problem? I would say if your worrie about your chest then hit it with some flye after

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Yeah, it’s happened to myself and a training buddy of mine, and I’m not complaining but wanted to seek out and possibly share some advice. Training partner and I started 531 around two years ago and have since jumped a couple programs. The thing that stuck with us from 531 was a love for strict press, so much love that we eventually found our shoulders taking over for our chest in bench press, to the point it literally felt like the bench was primarily shoulders and triceps.

Traditional technique, like trying to pull the bar apart seems to get the shoulders even more involved. We got a tip from another big contributor from these forums for the sake of getting the chest back involved in the bench press and it seems to have helped/ that is trying to activate the pecs by pushing the bar together rather than trying to pull it apart. Before I go giving this tip away, I’m wondering if it is really sound advice. [/quote]
I view bench as a movement also so I really don’t care. One thing that I have noticed is more soreness in my chest since I’ve been pausing my bench reps.

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Pulling the bar apart - that’s a myth. Don’t believe that. Lifts like the bench and squat are not done with muscles in mind, rather with a MOVEMENT in mind. And where you “feel” a movement is arbitrary. It’s about pushing the boundaries on a number not a pectoral.

[/quote]

I’ve always thought of the “pull the bar apart” thing is just a cue for the folks who don’t understand how to get the upper back tight for the movement. What cue or technique do you use, if any, for your clients to accomplish getting the back tight for benching?

[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Pulling the bar apart - that’s a myth. Don’t believe that. Lifts like the bench and squat are not done with muscles in mind, rather with a MOVEMENT in mind. And where you “feel” a movement is arbitrary. It’s about pushing the boundaries on a number not a pectoral.

[/quote]

I’ve always thought of the “pull the bar apart” thing is just a cue for the folks who don’t understand how to get the upper back tight for the movement. What cue or technique do you use, if any, for your clients to accomplish getting the back tight for benching?
[/quote]

I just “ride high” and make sure to tell myself I’m a stupid cunt. Which sounds funny but it reminds me to grow a pair. Which in turn reminds me to get the bar off strong, which always makes me squeeze, which makes my arms “tight”. Staying tight in the upper back is more a product of the set up and being aggressive - two things I rarely see focused on.

Don’t equate “agressive” with screaming and grunting and “look at me!” behavior. That doesn’t mean you have to be Stoic Sammy - it means that what you do has to result in zero misplaced energy.

ha, Excellent answer Jim. Thanks.

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Why would you want to involve your chest more? If you chest is involved less you feel, but if your bench is going up what’s the problem? I would say if your worrie about your chest then hit it with some flye after[/quote]

I’d want to get it more involved, theoretically to make the bench a more balanced full body movement as well as a bigger lift. In the conjugate system everything is based on increasing the big 3, I’ve been messing around with the strict press in place of, or added to the list of max effort bench movements in place of an incline press. Not sure if it’s the most effective but I love it and it’s enjoyable and I have had gains to both strict press and bench press. I tend to do primarily strict press and push pressing movements with dumbells and barbell to supplement the bench press on non strict press max effort days as well as dynamic bench days rather than things like landmines.

The base philosophy has always been to do the hardest stuff I know there is, or at least that I can pull off, that isn’t retarded or going to get me hurt. 531 was the first lifting book I picked and read seriously, it rung true with me and the basic philosophy of just doing shit has stuck.

The one thing I haven’t focused on are just the muscles, I realize I have been focusing primarily on movements, in part to train them and understand how they are suppose to feel in that I came to the iron game a little late in life (33). I may never be a world beater but I plan on sticking around a while and doing things both intelligently and without being a pussy. It’s the only outlet I have found that seems to fill the void or work as an outlet. A lot of prior military guys are the same, except most of them go to crossfit.

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Why would you want to involve your chest more? If you chest is involved less you feel, but if your bench is going up what’s the problem? I would say if your worrie about your chest then hit it with some flye after[/quote]

I’d want to get it more involved, theoretically to make the bench a more balanced full body movement as well as a bigger lift. In the conjugate system everything is based on increasing the big 3, I’ve been messing around with the strict press in place of, or added to the list of max effort bench movements in place of an incline press. Not sure if it’s the most effective but I love it and it’s enjoyable and I have had gains to both strict press and bench press. I tend to do primarily strict press and push pressing movements with dumbells and barbell to supplement the bench press on non strict press max effort days as well as dynamic bench days rather than things like landmines.

The base philosophy has always been to do the hardest stuff I know there is, or at least that I can pull off, that isn’t retarded or going to get me hurt. 531 was the first lifting book I picked and read seriously, it rung true with me and the basic philosophy of just doing shit has stuck.

The one thing I haven’t focused on are just the muscles, I realize I have been focusing primarily on movements, in part to train them and understand how they are suppose to feel in that I came to the iron game a little late in life (33). I may never be a world beater but I plan on sticking around a while and doing things both intelligently and without being a pussy. It’s the only outlet I have found that seems to fill the void or work as an outlet. A lot of prior military guys are the same, except most of them go to crossfit. [/quote]
Fuck crossfit

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Why would you want to involve your chest more? If you chest is involved less you feel, but if your bench is going up what’s the problem? I would say if your worrie about your chest then hit it with some flye after[/quote]

I’d want to get it more involved, theoretically to make the bench a more balanced full body movement as well as a bigger lift. In the conjugate system everything is based on increasing the big 3, I’ve been messing around with the strict press in place of, or added to the list of max effort bench movements in place of an incline press. Not sure if it’s the most effective but I love it and it’s enjoyable and I have had gains to both strict press and bench press. I tend to do primarily strict press and push pressing movements with dumbells and barbell to supplement the bench press on non strict press max effort days as well as dynamic bench days rather than things like landmines.

The base philosophy has always been to do the hardest stuff I know there is, or at least that I can pull off, that isn’t retarded or going to get me hurt. 531 was the first lifting book I picked and read seriously, it rung true with me and the basic philosophy of just doing shit has stuck.

The one thing I haven’t focused on are just the muscles, I realize I have been focusing primarily on movements, in part to train them and understand how they are suppose to feel in that I came to the iron game a little late in life (33). I may never be a world beater but I plan on sticking around a while and doing things both intelligently and without being a pussy. It’s the only outlet I have found that seems to fill the void or work as an outlet. A lot of prior military guys are the same, except most of them go to crossfit. [/quote]
Fuck crossfit
[/quote]
Although I personally don’t do, nor advocate crossfit, I at least respect it. In a similar fashion, I respect sub 2:30 marathon runners. Do I think it is great for the general public, maybe not. But there are some solid athletes in crossfit. I don’t like basketball, but there are some solid athletes doing that also.

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Why would you want to involve your chest more? If you chest is involved less you feel, but if your bench is going up what’s the problem? I would say if your worrie about your chest then hit it with some flye after[/quote]

I’d want to get it more involved, theoretically to make the bench a more balanced full body movement as well as a bigger lift. In the conjugate system everything is based on increasing the big 3, I’ve been messing around with the strict press in place of, or added to the list of max effort bench movements in place of an incline press. Not sure if it’s the most effective but I love it and it’s enjoyable and I have had gains to both strict press and bench press. I tend to do primarily strict press and push pressing movements with dumbells and barbell to supplement the bench press on non strict press max effort days as well as dynamic bench days rather than things like landmines.

The base philosophy has always been to do the hardest stuff I know there is, or at least that I can pull off, that isn’t retarded or going to get me hurt. 531 was the first lifting book I picked and read seriously, it rung true with me and the basic philosophy of just doing shit has stuck.

The one thing I haven’t focused on are just the muscles, I realize I have been focusing primarily on movements, in part to train them and understand how they are suppose to feel in that I came to the iron game a little late in life (33). I may never be a world beater but I plan on sticking around a while and doing things both intelligently and without being a pussy. It’s the only outlet I have found that seems to fill the void or work as an outlet. A lot of prior military guys are the same, except most of them go to crossfit. [/quote]
Fuck crossfit
[/quote]
Although I personally don’t do, nor advocate crossfit, I at least respect it. In a similar fashion, I respect sub 2:30 marathon runners. Do I think it is great for the general public, maybe not. But there are some solid athletes in crossfit. I don’t like basketball, but there are some solid athletes doing that also. [/quote]

Interesting. I consider basketball players to be the most well rounded athletes overall by far in the big 4 sports. Never really thought to include crossfit for consideration but I get what you are saying as far as athleticism is concerned. I know you weren’t comparing the two but good subject to toss about. I have nothing better to do down here in GA as I watch the massive ice-storm lock the city down.

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Young33 wrote:
Why would you want to involve your chest more? If you chest is involved less you feel, but if your bench is going up what’s the problem? I would say if your worrie about your chest then hit it with some flye after[/quote]

I’d want to get it more involved, theoretically to make the bench a more balanced full body movement as well as a bigger lift. In the conjugate system everything is based on increasing the big 3, I’ve been messing around with the strict press in place of, or added to the list of max effort bench movements in place of an incline press. Not sure if it’s the most effective but I love it and it’s enjoyable and I have had gains to both strict press and bench press. I tend to do primarily strict press and push pressing movements with dumbells and barbell to supplement the bench press on non strict press max effort days as well as dynamic bench days rather than things like landmines.

The base philosophy has always been to do the hardest stuff I know there is, or at least that I can pull off, that isn’t retarded or going to get me hurt. 531 was the first lifting book I picked and read seriously, it rung true with me and the basic philosophy of just doing shit has stuck.

The one thing I haven’t focused on are just the muscles, I realize I have been focusing primarily on movements, in part to train them and understand how they are suppose to feel in that I came to the iron game a little late in life (33). I may never be a world beater but I plan on sticking around a while and doing things both intelligently and without being a pussy. It’s the only outlet I have found that seems to fill the void or work as an outlet. A lot of prior military guys are the same, except most of them go to crossfit. [/quote]
Fuck crossfit
[/quote]
Although I personally don’t do, nor advocate crossfit, I at least respect it. In a similar fashion, I respect sub 2:30 marathon runners. Do I think it is great for the general public, maybe not. But there are some solid athletes in crossfit. I don’t like basketball, but there are some solid athletes doing that also. [/quote]

This is true. I would rather be good at my chosen sport instead of being good at “working out”

Crossfit IS a sport

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
Crossfit IS a sport[/quote]

Eh…

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
Crossfit IS a sport[/quote]

so is volley ball. and like volley ball, it should only be done by hotties in short shorts and bikini tops :slight_smile: