T Nation

Should SHBG Dictate Protocol? Bogus?


#1

We all know we keep hearing oh if your shbg is so and so u should inject EOD. Or if it’s super high inject insane amounts 1x a week.

Some with “high” inject EOD and are happy. Some that are “low” inject 1x a week and are happy. I mean who has the authority on here to dictate a protocol based mainly on shbg? No one! But go ahead and play Dr…

Do you know how much shbg can fluctuate in a single day??
I would love to see someone take labs 3x a day for a few days and track its value.


#2

I think some people are consistently high though and some consistently low. My readings have been 61, 74, 77, 80, 95, 125, 126, 100. It can’t just be coincidence that I’ve only tested when its fluctuating way above range and the rest of the time its 20 - 30.

This is why I can’t buy into physiologiks view that high SHBG guys don’t exist. Just based on my own personal experience and bloodwork. Perhaps he was talking about people who are not quite as extreme as me i.e. who fluctuate between 30 - 60 say. I would love to get his take on people with very high SHBG like me and traveling man.


#3

It’s not just about excretion of testosterone that should concern you, it how fast you metabolize testosterone and how your biology responds to frequent vs infrequent peaks. An older man peaks less often than younger man, the younger you are the more frequent you peak.

As you age your frequent peaks flatten out. So if you think it’s just about keeping levels stable, think again because it’s multifaceted. Frequent injections come closer to mimicking your natural rhythm.

The facts are hematocrit and estrogen are better controlled and lower on smaller more frequent dosing. Having less testosterone in your system at any given time and can lower hematocrit and the chance at converting testosterone to estrogen which improves the ratio of both.

I see a lot of men with low SHBG do much better on frequent vs infrequent dosing, sure sometimes we will have a genetic freak who’s biology is unique who does well on just about any protocol you put him on.


#4

It sounds like you have a practice?
All kidding aside. I hear what you are saying but like you I read other people’s experiences. Is it right to draw a conclusion based on these guys that come in these forums with a plethora of issues?
Nice to see some studies but this crap is all still “new”.

I don’t know.


#5

When I was on 75mg once weekly I would peak in the 530-550 range and a day before my next injection 6 days later I was scoring 440, strange considering my SHBG is 18. So I do not excrete much at all which only means one thing, I hyper metabolize my free testosterone quickly.

Going from a Free T at the top of the ranges to midrange is devastating for me, I need a lot of Free T to feel normal. A low SHBG obese man stands a better chance injecting everyday to minimize and control estrogen so that he can avoid an AI.


#6

Is there even any science on this? Ive read low shbg men who do great on 1 injection a week.


#7

What is considered “low”? Mine is 23-26 and I do fine with 200mg, 1x/week.


#8

Not sure, alright, hows libido on that dosage? And do u take AI?


#9

Very good. No AI.


#10

I think it all boils down to what works for YOU. I do however believe that guys who have problems with E2 spiking do much better with more frequent injections. It is more stable and that can be proven. Whether it’s due to SHBG, high aromatase rates, whatever, I couldn’t say for sure but I do know that it does work for more people than it doesn’t work for.

A simple half life calculation can tell you what you need to know about available testosterone based on the release rate of the particular ester of the the Test you’re injecting.

For example, Test Cyp.

E7D @ 200mg

Now look at the same chart for 100mg E3.5D

Same dosage…complete different release rates in the body.


#11

Did you ever try lower than 200? Curious cause I take 90 a week.
I see physio starts people at 200 a week. I guess I need to see what my free t is next time. But I feel good now. But ya know what if u could feel better.


#12

Nope, started at 200 and have stayed there, five years. Last labs had me at 902 total and 220 free.


#13

Nice. I gather that e2 will stabilize whether you inject 80 or 150. Just that initially when you start trt, like me, no one is patient enough and waiting the time to allow things to stabilize.


#14

Do u happen to know ur prolactin level?


#15

i like the charts. is there one that shows serum levels of t? ik thats complicated.

so the charts for 200 basically says it shoots out 30 mg of t then less and less each day until you inject again and get 30mg again.
and i like more stability cause at 41 I get symptoms when levels are on the way down and up.
\and e3.5 actually keeps levels higher though they dont peak as high as e7


#16

Yeah I don’t know of a serum level calculator off the top of my head, but I think that serum levels would be directly related to the release rates of the Test with some factor for SHBG? I’ll do some digging later on and see if I can come up with anything.