Should Philly Abortion Dr go to Prison for Muder?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:
Excerpt from the grand jury report…

A 28-week-old male, found frozen in container 1B with a
surgical incision at the base of the neck, discovered in the
February 2010 raid, and determined by the medical examiner to
have been viable.

A 26-week-old female also found in the February 2010 raid,
determined by the medical examiner to have been viable. Her
frozen remains were in a distilled water container labeled by
the medical examiner as 1C.

If you have the stomach the grand jury report is here: Homepage - Office of the District Attorney : City of Philadelphia

The man kept babies and parts of babies he had killed in jars, jugs, refrigerators, and freezers. In addition to killing a woman through his neglectful practice. Yup, to jail for murder on multiple counts.[/quote]

Wow! That’s pretty blatant shit…

[/quote]
Yeah, the grand jury report goes into more detail. The guy was a sick puppy. Real sick.

Were you trying to play devil’s advocate on this one? Or were you unaware of all this?[/quote]

My contention is that either abortion is legal or it’s not. The fact that the guy is gross not withstanding. It’s obvious this guy is soulless, but I would say if you make a living performing abortions you have to be intrinsically evil…

22

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yes, he should go to jail.

Who would argue he shouldn’t?[/quote]

Well, he’s an abortion doctor and abortion is legal. He seemed particularly bad at it, but all he did was perform abortions which are legal. Legally, what’s the problem? Does the metter of a few seconds separate a legal abortion from murder? What is the difference with what he did and what he was “supposed” to do?
He seemed a bit less sanitary, but being dirty makes you a muderer? That’s a big ass jump.

Did any of the mothers die? I didn’t see that.[/quote]

I take it you’re not a dad.[/quote]

I am a dad, and I think all abortion is murder. But the law doesn’t it differentiates by location. If the kid is in womb it’s a perfectly legal abortion. 1 second out of the womb it’s murder…
Either all abortion doctors are murderers or they are legal practitioners.

What I call in to question is the fuzzy line in the law. It’s a ridiculous imaginary line.

23

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:
Excerpt from the grand jury report…

A 28-week-old male, found frozen in container 1B with a
surgical incision at the base of the neck, discovered in the
February 2010 raid, and determined by the medical examiner to
have been viable.

A 26-week-old female also found in the February 2010 raid,
determined by the medical examiner to have been viable. Her
frozen remains were in a distilled water container labeled by
the medical examiner as 1C.

If you have the stomach the grand jury report is here: Homepage - Office of the District Attorney : City of Philadelphia

The man kept babies and parts of babies he had killed in jars, jugs, refrigerators, and freezers. In addition to killing a woman through his neglectful practice. Yup, to jail for murder on multiple counts.[/quote]

Wow! That’s pretty blatant shit…

[/quote]
Yeah, the grand jury report goes into more detail. The guy was a sick puppy. Real sick.

Were you trying to play devil’s advocate on this one? Or were you unaware of all this?[/quote]

I think pat is just trying to point out that abortion IS murder.

24

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
You left out an important part of the article where it says that he was performing abortions in the 6th, 7th and 8th months of pregnancy which, according to the article (after 24 months) is illegal.
That’s pretty brutal when you imagine it.[/quote]

After 24 months? So, after a year and half after birth I can still kill my baby, sounds like a plan. You know just in case I realise that the baby is too much after it comes out of the womb.

25

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
How far along was she when she had this abortion?[/quote]

It was multiple abortions, from a unlicensed doctor, some of the “abortions” occurred after the baby was born alive.

Pro-choice or not, the laws are this are pretty clear.

The OP is trying to snide in saying he should be let go because abortion is legal, pretending there’s no difference between what’s going on at one month and what’s going on at 8.[/quote]

What is the difference? They are both in the womb are they not?

26

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
How far along was she when she had this abortion?[/quote]

It was multiple abortions, from a unlicensed doctor, some of the “abortions” occurred after the baby was born alive.

Pro-choice or not, the laws are this are pretty clear.

The OP is trying to snide in saying he should be let go because abortion is legal, pretending there’s no difference between what’s going on at one month and what’s going on at 8.[/quote]

Can I abort a 16 year old?
[/quote]

Yes, it is a matter of dependency and development. The 16 year old is obviously dependent on your body to provide for it food and shelter and it is not fully developed mentally or physically. And is otherwise a parasite or tumor (you can refer to them as corpses if you wish to not completely de-humanize their nature, but for argumentative sake I’d go with parasite or tumor) to you and your paycheck, and since you can’t probably give it the life style of Bill Gates, it is better for you kill the child.

27

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yes, he should go to jail.

Who would argue he shouldn’t?[/quote]

Well, he’s an abortion doctor and abortion is legal. He seemed particularly bad at it, but all he did was perform abortions which are legal. Legally, what’s the problem? Does the metter of a few seconds separate a legal abortion from murder? What is the difference with what he did and what he was “supposed” to do?
He seemed a bit less sanitary, but being dirty makes you a muderer? That’s a big ass jump.

Did any of the mothers die? I didn’t see that.[/quote]
One mother did yes. Also, I think the law about abortion has something to do with timing, so after 24 weeks it equals murder. Also, I think there is something about the baby not being out of or fully out of the womb when it is killed, so again this guy induced labor babies were born alive and viable and then he killed them.

I see what you are getting at pointing out that a few seconds or being outside the womb before death makes it illegal. He is being charged with infanticide though not with committing abortion. I personaly think abortion is infanticide, but the law doesn’t agree at present.[/quote]

Well, I’ll just have to refer to my constitutional rights as the U.S. Supreme Court declared them in Roe vs. Wade, all nine months of pregnancy I can abort the fetus.

28

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yes, he should go to jail.

Who would argue he shouldn’t?[/quote]

Well, he’s an abortion doctor and abortion is legal. He seemed particularly bad at it, but all he did was perform abortions which are legal. Legally, what’s the problem? Does the metter of a few seconds separate a legal abortion from murder? What is the difference with what he did and what he was “supposed” to do?
He seemed a bit less sanitary, but being dirty makes you a muderer? That’s a big ass jump.

Did any of the mothers die? I didn’t see that.[/quote]

I take it you’re not a dad.[/quote]

I am a dad, and I think all abortion is murder. But the law doesn’t it differentiates by location. If the kid is in womb it’s a perfectly legal abortion. 1 second out of the womb it’s murder…
Either all abortion doctors are murderers or they are legal practitioners.

What I call in to question is the fuzzy line in the law. It’s a ridiculous imaginary line.[/quote]

Location brother, it’s not okay to commit genocide in America, but by the same logic of abortion laws, it should perfectly be legal to commit genocide in Sudan.

I mean unless you’re a bigoted anti-choice, take care of the responsibilities from your actions, don’t kill innocent people, logical person that realises that if everyone resorted to abortion humands would go extinct…kind of person. Then you might disagree, but hey what’s right for you is right for you and what is right for me is right for me, there is no absolute truth except the truth that there is no absolute truth.

29

This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.

30

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

And, I ask again, what is the difference between a zygote and a eight month old fetus?

31

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

And, I ask again, what is the difference between a zygote and a eight month old fetus?[/quote]

Quite a lot actually. They differ in mass, organ formation, brain function, etc…
However, both are still the whole living body of a human with a unique genetic identity distinct from either contributing parent gamete.
^this is the only objective definition of a person.

32

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

This.

33

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

The details of the case are clear. The facts are that this guy was an abortion dr. He did his job. Now if his patients died, did they not sign disclaimers that stated the risks of the procedure and therefore recuse the dr from responsibility?

Look, this cocksucker is just a bad doctor. If I am a bad employee, I get fired, not go to prison for murder.

When you have a medical procedure done, you sign a release stating that you understand that you can die from it. Secondly, these “patients” are coming in to have their children killed. Services were provided, what’s the problem?
I know full well, where this would go. The question of the legitimacy of abortion and what it actually is is going to come up and is important to the discussion.
The paradox is simply this, is an in utero person different from one outside the mother? The law says that killing a fetus outside the mother is murder and one inside is a perfectly legal procedure. That is a HUGE dichotomy.
This doctor should have his license revoked and never be allowed to practice again. He should not go to jail for murder because he’s less ethical than his counterparts.

What is the definition of a human? What makes a person a person? That will answer all your questions as to when life begins and what is a human.

Let’s say you can do perform an action and you have a 50/ 50 chance of killing someone if you did it and a zero percent chance if you did nothing. Would you still do IT?

34

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Yes, he should go to jail.

Who would argue he shouldn’t?[/quote]

Well, he’s an abortion doctor and abortion is legal. He seemed particularly bad at it, but all he did was perform abortions which are legal. Legally, what’s the problem? Does the metter of a few seconds separate a legal abortion from murder? What is the difference with what he did and what he was “supposed” to do?
He seemed a bit less sanitary, but being dirty makes you a muderer? That’s a big ass jump.

Did any of the mothers die? I didn’t see that.[/quote]

I take it you’re not a dad.[/quote]

I am a dad, and I think all abortion is murder. But the law doesn’t it differentiates by location. If the kid is in womb it’s a perfectly legal abortion. 1 second out of the womb it’s murder…
Either all abortion doctors are murderers or they are legal practitioners.

What I call in to question is the fuzzy line in the law. It’s a ridiculous imaginary line.[/quote]

Ah, I see what you did there. I wasn’t quite sure from your intial post what your angle was. Carry on.

35

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

The details of the case are clear. The facts are that this guy was an abortion dr. He did his job. Now if his patients died, did they not sign disclaimers that stated the risks of the procedure and therefore recuse the dr from responsibility?

Look, this cocksucker is just a bad doctor. If I am a bad employee, I get fired, not go to prison for murder.

When you have a medical procedure done, you sign a release stating that you understand that you can die from it. Secondly, these “patients” are coming in to have their children killed. Services were provided, what’s the problem?
I know full well, where this would go. The question of the legitimacy of abortion and what it actually is is going to come up and is important to the discussion.
The paradox is simply this, is an in utero person different from one outside the mother? The law says that killing a fetus outside the mother is murder and one inside is a perfectly legal procedure. That is a HUGE dichotomy.
This doctor should have his license revoked and never be allowed to practice again. He should not go to jail for murder because he’s less ethical than his counterparts.

What is the definition of a human? What makes a person a person? That will answer all your questions as to when life begins and what is a human.[/quote]

The official position of the SCOTUS is that a human is not a person until birth.
This is outdated nonsense.
Murder is also not a Constitutional(Federal) question. It is entirely within the jurisdiction of the states individually. So whether or not a state wants to prosecute abortion as murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, infanticide, etc… is entirely up to the state.

36

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

The details of the case are clear. The facts are that this guy was an abortion dr. He did his job. Now if his patients died, did they not sign disclaimers that stated the risks of the procedure and therefore recuse the dr from responsibility?

Look, this cocksucker is just a bad doctor. If I am a bad employee, I get fired, not go to prison for murder.

When you have a medical procedure done, you sign a release stating that you understand that you can die from it. Secondly, these “patients” are coming in to have their children killed. Services were provided, what’s the problem?
I know full well, where this would go. The question of the legitimacy of abortion and what it actually is is going to come up and is important to the discussion.
The paradox is simply this, is an in utero person different from one outside the mother? The law says that killing a fetus outside the mother is murder and one inside is a perfectly legal procedure. That is a HUGE dichotomy.
This doctor should have his license revoked and never be allowed to practice again. He should not go to jail for murder because he’s less ethical than his counterparts.

What is the definition of a human? What makes a person a person? That will answer all your questions as to when life begins and what is a human.[/quote]

The official position of the SCOTUS is that a human is not a person until birth.
This is outdated nonsense.
Murder is also not a Constitutional(Federal) question. It is entirely within the jurisdiction of the states individually. So whether or not a state wants to prosecute abortion as murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, infanticide, etc… is entirely up to the state.

[/quote]

SCOTUS doesn’t date as far back as the Hippocratic Oath, which originally had “not to commit abortion” or something along those lines in it.

37

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

The details of the case are clear. The facts are that this guy was an abortion dr. He did his job. Now if his patients died, did they not sign disclaimers that stated the risks of the procedure and therefore recuse the dr from responsibility?

Look, this cocksucker is just a bad doctor. If I am a bad employee, I get fired, not go to prison for murder.

When you have a medical procedure done, you sign a release stating that you understand that you can die from it. Secondly, these “patients” are coming in to have their children killed. Services were provided, what’s the problem?
I know full well, where this would go. The question of the legitimacy of abortion and what it actually is is going to come up and is important to the discussion.
The paradox is simply this, is an in utero person different from one outside the mother? The law says that killing a fetus outside the mother is murder and one inside is a perfectly legal procedure. That is a HUGE dichotomy.
This doctor should have his license revoked and never be allowed to practice again. He should not go to jail for murder because he’s less ethical than his counterparts.

What is the definition of a human? What makes a person a person? That will answer all your questions as to when life begins and what is a human.[/quote]

The official position of the SCOTUS is that a human is not a person until birth.
This is outdated nonsense.
Murder is also not a Constitutional(Federal) question. It is entirely within the jurisdiction of the states individually. So whether or not a state wants to prosecute abortion as murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, infanticide, etc… is entirely up to the state.

[/quote]

SCOTUS doesn’t date as far back as the Hippocratic Oath, which originally had “not to commit abortion” or something along those lines in it. [/quote]

What difference does it make. The Constitution is the law of the land not the Hippocratic Oath.
The question posed to the SCOTUS at the time was an impossible one. The concept of genetic identity was nonexistent at the time. Since the process of conception is clear now, Roe V. Wade is outdated.

38

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

And, I ask again, what is the difference between a zygote and a eight month old fetus?[/quote]

Quite a lot actually. They differ in mass, organ formation, brain function, etc…
However, both are still the whole living body of a human with a unique genetic identity distinct from either contributing parent gamete.
^this is the only objective definition of a person.[/quote]

They do not possess personhood.
Hence, they are not people.
As far as I can tell, the mothers didn’t want the baby.
I see no problem with this. I don’t understand why it matters when the abortion occurs.
Babies feel and are aware of pain just as much as a plant is.
I can’t recall a thing before the age of 2, let alone in the womb.
You are on auto pilot up until that point.

39

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
This thread is a non-starter.

The purported OP question was “should this guy go to jail?”, not, what do you think about abortion. The “should this man go to jail?” question comes down to: did this man break the law?

And the answer is clearly yes: he did. He both harmed/killed the female patients, and killed a number of live-born infants, which by no one definition of the word constitutes abortion, legal or otherwise.

If the OP wanted to have a another debate on abortion, that should have been the topic of the post.

Though a couple posts in it became clear that the OP had skimmed the article he linked, was unaware of the specific details of the case, and wanted to argue the 'ol “There’s no difference between a zygote and an 8-month old fetus: it’s all the same!” line.[/quote]

And, I ask again, what is the difference between a zygote and a eight month old fetus?[/quote]

Quite a lot actually. They differ in mass, organ formation, brain function, etc…
However, both are still the whole living body of a human with a unique genetic identity distinct from either contributing parent gamete.
^this is the only objective definition of a person.[/quote]

They do not possess personhood.
Hence, they are not people.
As far as I can tell, the mothers didn’t want the baby.
I see no problem with this. I don’t understand why it matters when the abortion occurs.
Babies feel and are aware of pain just as much as a plant is.
I can’t recall a thing before the age of 2, let alone in the womb.
You are on auto pilot up until that point.
[/quote]

Your first two statements are circular arguments.
A unique living human is a person. More specifically, a syngamete(zygote), the whole living body of a human with a unique genetic identity distinct from either contributing parent gamete, is a person.
This can be demonstrated using only deductive logic, though it’s rather lengthy.

Your next statement is anecdotal to your own perception(“as far as you can tell”) so irrelevant.

Though it is irrelevant, your last three statements are, in order, false(empirically), anecdotal, and vague/subjective.

40

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Should the good Dr. Kermit go prison for murder?

The short version of the story is that at least in 7 cases the babies came out alive and he took a pair of scissors and jammed them into the back of the neck of the babies and cut their spinal cord.

The longer version is here:

I say no, he should not. Abortion is legal, these people came to him to kill their babies and he did so. Does it really matter that they were in the womb 30 seconds earlier? Does it really make it different if he sliced them up in the womb or out? I say no.

This is the law of the land, you should have to face it’s ugly truth in or out of the womb.The womb should not be required to hide it’s uglyness…
Discuss.[/quote]

One more horrendous law that the liberals have given us: ABORTION. This guy should go to prison and never see the light of day again. Murder is horrible - killing children is the worst sort of murder. He like the people who made abortion legal are despicable.
[/quote]

Yawn. Oh, look. Zeb hates liberals. How exciting.