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Should I Quit Doing ICF 5x5? Goal is Mass

by the way, your diet totally sucks

[quote]Yogi wrote:
by the way, your diet totally sucks[/quote]

Yup. I’m not a high protein fanboy, but you’re just doing IIFYM wrong. Seriously. Stuff like cheerios has no place in the diet of someone who’s carrying some extra weight and wants to look good.

I see a massive amount of shit quality carbs, very few quality fats and absolutely no fruit or veg.

I think learning the basics of cookery would go a long way to help you reach your goals. This is not as difficult as it sounds, try the thread below for some ideas:

Disclaimer: Almost all of the guys on this thread are significantly bigger and stronger than you, many of them are not worrying about their physique or bodyfat levels. This being said it would be best to use this as a way of getting ideas for meals rather than a full on guide on how to eat.

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
by the way, your diet totally sucks[/quote]

Yup. I’m not a high protein fanboy, but you’re just doing IIFYM wrong. Seriously. Stuff like cheerios has no place in the diet of someone who’s carrying some extra weight and wants to look good.[/quote]

Thats just one day. Sometimes have brown bread instead, whats wrong with brown bread and whey for breakfast?
Likewise whats wrong with wholemeal wraps, chicken and peppers?
I have brown rice and chicken probably 4 days a week also, with veg mixed in with the rice. I dont really like fruit, how does fruit benefit bulking anyway its all just simple carbs with a few vitamins you can get from supps anyway.

[quote]NoobGains24 wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
by the way, your diet totally sucks[/quote]

Yup. I’m not a high protein fanboy, but you’re just doing IIFYM wrong. Seriously. Stuff like cheerios has no place in the diet of someone who’s carrying some extra weight and wants to look good.[/quote]

Thats just one day. Sometimes have brown bread instead, whats wrong with brown bread and whey for breakfast?
Likewise whats wrong with wholemeal wraps, chicken and peppers?
I have brown rice and chicken probably 4 days a week also, with veg mixed in with the rice. I dont really like fruit, how does fruit benefit bulking anyway its all just simple carbs with a few vitamins you can get from supps anyway.
[/quote]

When I was in your position (In full disclosure, I was weaker at that point in my training, which does have an effect), I based my diet almost exclusively on whole cuts of meat, lots of veg, limited fruit and maybe one grain a day. It worked well for me, I lost around 4 stone over the course of a year while getting significantly stronger (although still very weak).

I focused on food quality over numbers because it made me feel healthier and it gave me the results I needed. By focusing on food quality, it meat my protein and fat levels where much higher than yours, and my carbs much lower, although I didn’t know it at the time. Looking back, this was a fantastic decision because I wasn’t doing anything at a high enough level to need all those carbs.

This is what has worked for me, and I know it has worked for other people. You have a fair few respected members here telling you very similar things, it would be worth your while considering that they might be right.

[quote]dagill2 wrote:
I see a massive amount of shit quality carbs, very few quality fats and absolutely no fruit or veg.

I think learning the basics of cookery would go a long way to help you reach your goals. This is not as difficult as it sounds, try the thread below for some ideas:

Disclaimer: Almost all of the guys on this thread are significantly bigger and stronger than you, many of them are not worrying about their physique or bodyfat levels. This being said it would be best to use this as a way of getting ideas for meals rather than a full on guide on how to eat.[/quote]

That link is just more confusing, a few samples from the thread:

Breakfast - 2 cups Oatmeal, Ham and cheese on Toast, whey Protein Shake.
Post Flag Football game - whey Protein Shake.
Lunch - 275g Brown Rice, 250g Sweet Potato, 250g Chicken Breast, 2 tbsp humus.
Late Lunch - 175g Sirloin Steak, 250g Brown Rice, Broccoli
Dinner - 2 Slices Meatball Pizza with additional 80g chicken breast. Mushroom slice
Late Snack - 450g Greek Yogurt, 2 scoops whey

-2 slices of pizza

Breakfast

4 eggs
4 strips bacon
Porridge with chicken slices

Lunch

Big Mac Meal

Breakfast -8:00am
6 eggs, 6 egg whites
1 cup oatmeal
1 banana
16oz 1% Milk

Lunch- 12:00pm
12oz of Flank Steak
1/2 cup Jasmin rice
1tbsp olive oil

Meal 3-
12oz of chicken
2 sweet potatoes
asparagus

Dinner-
12oz of Tuna
4 slices whole grain bread
16oz 1% Milk
Little Mayo for Tuna

Before Bed-
16oz of Cottage Cheese
Peanutbutter.

Note zero fruit/veg apart from asaparagus and a banana, i have bananas too.

Breakfast:
serving bowl full of Cinnamon Toast Crunch with skim milk

Lunch:
6 eggs

Dinner:
1lb of sirloin tip steak

Snack:
6 more eggs

Supps:
12 fish oil
1 bag of Wonka Giant Chewy Nerds

2786 calories
227g protein
190g carbs
118g fat

Note junk cereal, sugary sweets and NO fruit or veg

This is all on one page. Id say about 80% of posts on that thread contain zero or minimal fruit or veg and a lot contain, ‘shit carb sources’

[quote]NoobGains24 wrote:
I dont really like fruit, how does fruit benefit bulking anyway its all just simple carbs with a few vitamins you can get from supps anyway.
[/quote]

It’s also a decent fiber source, and depending on what you’re eating can also be a decent source of antioxidants, folic acid, and other goodies. If you’re really bent on doing the if it fits your macros thing, I would definitely go for a bowl of blueberries in the morning vs a bowl of cheerios.

I think this is an excellent read on nutrition

It markets itself as a fat loss diet, but it’s honestly just a good way to eat.

I found an old post on a forum elsewhere.
I actually started ICF on 25th March.
My starting weights:

Squat: 70kg 5x5 Now 87.5kg 5x5
Bent over BB Row: 45kg 5x5 Now 67.5kg 5x5
Standing military press: 40kg 5x5 Now 50kg 5x5
Deadlift: 95kg 1x5 Now 110kg 1x5
Bench press: 65kg 5x5 Now 77.5kg 5x5

Starting weight was 164lb, Now 166lb. I did a mini cut for 2 weeks on 12th April followed by a one week holiday, so essentially 3 weeks where lifts stayed the same and actually declined slightly when i returned. I came back with a stomach bug which is still with me now (over 2 weeks later) so my weight flucuates a lot due to using Imodium and stuff.
I weighed this morning and i was 166lb.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]NoobGains24 wrote:
I dont really like fruit, how does fruit benefit bulking anyway its all just simple carbs with a few vitamins you can get from supps anyway.
[/quote]

It’s also a decent fiber source, and depending on what you’re eating can also be a decent source of antioxidants, folic acid, and other goodies. If you’re really bent on doing the if it fits your macros thing, I would definitely go for a bowl of blueberries in the morning vs a bowl of cheerios.

I think this is an excellent read on nutrition

It markets itself as a fat loss diet, but it’s honestly just a good way to eat.
[/quote]

Thanks. The Cheerios were just a box i bought and going through them. Prior to that my usual breakfast would be either 2 slices of brown toaste, butter and 2 scoops whey and water. Or the same but peanut butter on the toast.

Or a lot of the time i’d dump 2 scoops whey in a pint of milk, throw in some oats and PB, maybe a banana, blend and drink.
Im never very hungry in the mornings so i prefer the shakes.
I’ll add more eggs in my diet and just cover them in pepper to mask the taste, and maybe more fish other than canned tuna which isnt great. I’ll buy some nuts or something for snacks and increase milk intake.

I’m not a nutrition guy by any means, but toast (and bread in general) is usually more something I would consider a treat, not a dietary staple. I just don’t see it having a lot of redeeming qualities. If I’m going to eat a direct carb source, I prefer it be something that went through less processing, like a sweet potato.

Or, if I’m going to eat something processed, I go all out and have some nachos, haha.

I think your ideas of adding more protein sources is sound. A slow cooker is really a boon in this regard, as you can make a huge serving of meat for cheap and just eat it through out the week.

I eat cheerios for breakfast.

I don’t quite understand why you would take a shot at CParker. That guy’s a monster. He’s built a considerable amount of muscle, something you said you were interested in doing. And he gives sound advice. I wouldn’t be so dismissive of him. Whether or not you believe he’s carrying around too much fat is irrelevant to his training advice. He certainly knows how to do that.

Also, everytime I read a thread about IIFYM, I understand IIFYM less.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I eat cheerios for breakfast.
[/quote]

I’m a poptart man myself.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Also, everytime I read a thread about IIFYM, I understand IIFYM less.[/quote]

Hahaha. I know what you mean.

I think part of the problem is that people are not good at accurately estimating their caloric/macro intake. They guess, and/or just have a vague idea of their “macros” in terms of general overall balance of carbs/fat/protein, but don’t actually measure everything and try to hit an exact number of cho/pro/fat within 5 grams every day.

[quote]NoobGains24 wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:
I see a massive amount of shit quality carbs, very few quality fats and absolutely no fruit or veg.

I think learning the basics of cookery would go a long way to help you reach your goals. This is not as difficult as it sounds, try the thread below for some ideas:

Disclaimer: Almost all of the guys on this thread are significantly bigger and stronger than you, many of them are not worrying about their physique or bodyfat levels. This being said it would be best to use this as a way of getting ideas for meals rather than a full on guide on how to eat.[/quote]

That link is just more confusing, a few samples from the thread:

Breakfast - 2 cups Oatmeal, Ham and cheese on Toast, whey Protein Shake.
Post Flag Football game - whey Protein Shake.
Lunch - 275g Brown Rice, 250g Sweet Potato, 250g Chicken Breast, 2 tbsp humus.
Late Lunch - 175g Sirloin Steak, 250g Brown Rice, Broccoli
Dinner - 2 Slices Meatball Pizza with additional 80g chicken breast. Mushroom slice
Late Snack - 450g Greek Yogurt, 2 scoops whey

-2 slices of pizza

Breakfast

4 eggs
4 strips bacon
Porridge with chicken slices

Lunch

Big Mac Meal

Breakfast -8:00am
6 eggs, 6 egg whites
1 cup oatmeal
1 banana
16oz 1% Milk

Lunch- 12:00pm
12oz of Flank Steak
1/2 cup Jasmin rice
1tbsp olive oil

Meal 3-
12oz of chicken
2 sweet potatoes
asparagus

Dinner-
12oz of Tuna
4 slices whole grain bread
16oz 1% Milk
Little Mayo for Tuna

Before Bed-
16oz of Cottage Cheese
Peanutbutter.

Note zero fruit/veg apart from asaparagus and a banana, i have bananas too.

Breakfast:
serving bowl full of Cinnamon Toast Crunch with skim milk

Lunch:
6 eggs

Dinner:
1lb of sirloin tip steak

Snack:
6 more eggs

Supps:
12 fish oil
1 bag of Wonka Giant Chewy Nerds

2786 calories
227g protein
190g carbs
118g fat

Note junk cereal, sugary sweets and NO fruit or veg

This is all on one page. Id say about 80% of posts on that thread contain zero or minimal fruit or veg and a lot contain, ‘shit carb sources’[/quote]

Note the disclaimer at the bottom, I didn’t post this as an example of how to eat, but as a source of ideas for more nutrient dense “real” foods. Looking back, this may have been a mistake so I’ll just repeat my main point which is that I think the quality of your food should increase by eating more veg and less processed carbs.

I would also add that it is important to remember that with the best will in the world, neither me nor you are performing at the same level as Th3Pwnisher or FlipCollar and it doesn’t follow that because they can “get away” with cheerios or pop tarts for breakfast, that we can.

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

I would also add that it is important to remember that with the best will in the world, neither me nor you are performing at the same level as Th3Pwnisher or FlipCollar and it doesn’t follow that because they can “get away” with cheerios or pop tarts for breakfast, that we can.[/quote]

Context is important too. I eat pop tarts for breakfast because I wake up at 0450 to lift in my garage at 0505 and want to get a lot of calories and simple carbs in a short period of time. I also like the 1 handed aspect of it because I’m usually wrangling my dogs during this time. However, on non-training days, I just drink a protein shake in the morning.

Ill get more whole foods in my diet then.
Ive also just bought two jars of peanut butter and nuts for more fats.
I have 5 fish oil supps a day too

[quote]NoobGains24 wrote:
Today so far ive had:

Bowl of cheerios and green lid milk.
350 cal
50g carb
10g protein (roughly)[/quote]

This is just shit. You really think 10g of protein in a meal is enough? Eat more, way more. If you can’t stomach a good whack of animal protein first thing in the morning then have a shake.

[quote]NoobGains24 wrote:
2 scoops whey and water
220 cal
2g carb
50g protein[/quote]

where’s the carbs, where’s the calories, where’s the fats? Have a solid meal here instead. Something with plants and dead animals.

[quote]
3 fajita wraps (one wrap is 145 cal with salsa and seasoning)
I had mine with 2 chicken breasts, pepper, onion, salsa and a bit of cheese

850 cal
120g carb
60g protein[/quote]

this is the only meal you eat which is anywhere near decent. You should be having meals like this four times a day.

Carbs? Calories? Fats?

You seem to be misunderstanding the number one rule of eating to gain mass, which is to actually eat! One ok meal a day and a bunch of shakes isn’t going to cut it.

^^^ Yogi is right.

2600 kcal 3 days / week and 2200 on off days at a bodyweight of 166 does not represent a significant caloric surplus for the vast majority of people.

I would try 2800 every day, with 185 g protein. Gauge progress after ~2 weeks.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

I would also add that it is important to remember that with the best will in the world, neither me nor you are performing at the same level as Th3Pwnisher or FlipCollar and it doesn’t follow that because they can “get away” with cheerios or pop tarts for breakfast, that we can.[/quote]

Context is important too. I eat pop tarts for breakfast because I wake up at 0450 to lift in my garage at 0505 and want to get a lot of calories and simple carbs in a short period of time. I also like the 1 handed aspect of it because I’m usually wrangling my dogs during this time. However, on non-training days, I just drink a protein shake in the morning.[/quote]

Right. If I had the appropriate mentality to actually put together a real breakfast for myself, I would. And it would be eggs and greens and whatnot. I just don’t do it during the week. That is what I do on weekends. It’s also important to note that the cheerios are what, like 250-300 calories I’m guessing? (I’ve never actually read the label, this is a guess) So we’re talking about less than 10% of my daily intake. As soon as I get to work I mix a 100g protein shake and sip that throughout the day.

So you’re right, saying I eat cheerios for breakfast isn’t telling the whole story.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Also, everytime I read a thread about IIFYM, I understand IIFYM less.[/quote]

Dom to the rescue: