T Nation

Should I Do Pellets or Shots?


#1

I have been on Androgel for 1.5 years. Trouble is, we can't get the dose correct. I wind up getting retested almost monthly. My numbers are all over the place. Im currently on the 1.62% Androgel, 4 pumps daily which is the maximum dose. When I was on 3 pumps daily on the shoulder my levels came back at total T of 450, prior to that at 2 pumps the levels came back 400

So last moth we go to 4 pumps, but this time I try something different: Instrad of putting all the gel on my shoulders like the instructions say, i put one pump on each shoulder and one pump on each flank. My last test 3 weeks ago comes back at 1050 with E2 at 95!

I think its clear that I'm having absorption issues on the shoulders. Also my shoulders are not getting very itchy and red and burning.

So tomorrow I go back to test again. The doctor is saying that me may switch to pellets. IT cost $75.00 per pellet and he says he will start me at 10 pellets, plus another $250.00 to put them in. This Doctor is in Westchester County NY and does not accept insurance. But he submits the claim as out of network and accepts whatever the insurance company deems reasonable and customary.

I asked him about shots and he says he doesn't do shots, there is too much of a spike.

I don't know what I should do. Do the pellets? Do the shots with a different doc?
Whats better pellets or shots?
Which will more then likely lower my E2?


#2

My Doc Swears by them.


#3

Your doc says that shots give too much of a spike, yet wants to put in PELLETS that last for 3 months? Ask him to explain that bullshit to you...how would an implant that lasts for 3 months keep someone in range and steady if it didn't induce a spike?

Shots do not create any spike at all if dosed correctly (2-3x/week). Find a new doctor.


#4

Swears by what, Pellets or Shots?

What do you take?


#5

Looks like your doctors main interest is his wallet not your health.


#6

Every form of constant medication will cause a "spike" if not dosed properly. Inserting something in your body, of which you cannot control yourself, scares the living fuck out of me.

Find another doctor who will give you shots, and do it 2 times a week to avoid the spike.


#7

yes a monthly shot causes a spike
yes a biweekly shot causes a spike
yes a weekly shot causes a spike

no a shot E3D does not cause a spike.

Assuming you get dialed in perfectly for implants, they will still put you above the range you want for the first month, around the range you want the 2nd, and below the range you want for the third.... and that is preferable to shots because why?


#8

Well, here is the thing, I can't see myself doing the shots myself. And I can't see going to the doc 2 times a week either.

Also, my main concern is the E2 being so high at 95

I noticed my libido is almost gone with total T over 1000 and E2 so high. I am only assuming its the E@ killing the libido.

would Shots or pellets lower the E2 or does it have nothing to do with the delivery method?

I met me co-pay this year, so I could try the pellets (it would be free if done before 1/1/12 and then if I don't like the result I could switch to shots i n February?

Or I could demand shots now.

I notice with the gel I am beginning to get irritation at the tops of my shoulders (burning and itching).
When I apply it to my flanks I get a big spike to almost 1200 total T and the same dose to my shoulders gives me only 600 total T


#9

Also: There used to be a fellow on here who switched to pellets after being on the gel for 10 years, he seemed to love the pellets. He was based out of NYC.
I was hoping to get his input but it doesn't appear as if he is active any longer. I would love to know is he is still on the pellets


#10

Bricknyce was borderline troll for most of the time he was here--very little he said should be taken seriously...he was argumentative for argument's sake

Why can't you see yourself doing the shots? A quick jab into the shoulders a couple times a week with an insulin needle? If you can't handle that, you certainly won't need any HCG because you are lacking testicles


#11

Yea thats the guy, BrickNYC Well, Its funny but he is how I found this site. I did a search online for info on pellets and his posts came up, lol......I called the doctor he recommended in Long Island to schedule an appointment.
I was just curious if he was still doing good on the pellets.

The thing is, my E2 is 95 and I read that pellets are the best at keeping that in check, while gels are the worst and shots are next.

Another consideration is that I met my deductible for this year, and its a high one. So if I put the pellets in now before the end of the year it will cost me nothing. I checked and my insurance will cover it.
SO I was thinking I could try it for now and see how I feel, I assume if its a problem or too expensive I could just switch to shots in 3 months.

Tomorrow I have a doctors appt and will see what he wants to do, I had blood drawn last week so we will see where I am. My last draw total T was 1050 and Estradiol was 95, libido is dead. When my E2 is below 50 I am good.

I have an appointment this morning to give blood. In case we do the pellets tomorrow I don't want the hemocrit to go up.
Also for good measure Im skipping todays gel application so theres no spike with the pellets tomorrow (if we go that route)


#12

I am pretty confident the doctor will do what is better for him. From the sounds of it the cost is $1000 to put in 10 pellets. You should decide what route you want to go, and from the sounds of it Pellets are what you want.

Let me just say this, the time I have been on the forum nobody goes for pellets. They all stick with the simple injections that work. Injections are easy to dial in and really if you want to avoid spikes and valleys then injections is it. If pellets were so good more people would be using them.

If you want inconsistent dosing, higher costs go pellets.


#13

Please cite this...I have never read that and can't think of a reason why it would be true...given that you are going through HUGE swings in Total T levels over a 3 months period...you may get less E2 problems in the last month, since the pellets will have your levels on the lower end of "normal" but you will have high E2 for the first month.

It is very well known that you want to avoid swings in Total T levels--that is why injections are recommended at twice a week. They are easy, take less than 2 minutes to perform, and you are on your way with no pain. E2 is also easily controlled with an AI if needed since you know exactly where your Total T levels are (within a very narrow margin).

Good luck trying to make use of an AI if you need it while on pellets...shooting in the dark at a moving target

So yeah, please cite where you read about pellets causiing less E2 problems--i'd be curious to read it


#14

I have seen it in numerous forum postings, and one doctor mentioned it too. I will find it and submit post.

I just returned from the blood drive. I gave a pint. My democrat was 51.


#15

Which forums? I have never seen that. Which doctor?


#16

Doctors:

http://www.derosamedical.com/frequently-asked-questions/treatment-of-andropause/#faq4

http://www.biobalancehealth.com/bioidentical-hormone-replacement/male-hormones-low-testosterone/male-low-testosterone-faq/

Forums that mention low E2 conversion with pellets:

THIS forum "because of their slow breakdown, Testosterone pellets tend to reduce aromatase conversion."
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_supplements/the_testosterone_toolbox

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/testosterone-pellet-543357.html

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/testosterone-pellets-134270592.html

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/550321_6

There are literally hundreds of web pages stating that Pellets have less E@ conversion then ANY OTHER delivery method.

You ever hear of Google? Just use it :slightly_smiling:


#17

So what if it has less E2 conversion? You should be on an AI to stop the conversion for any proper treatment anyway. You clearly have a high E2 problem, putting testosterone into your body without keeping your E2 in check is defeating the purpose completely, essentially.

YOU have no proof pellets will keep your E2 in check. Every body is different.


#18

Im a little concerned with my RBC and HCrit was 51
I read that shots and pellets can rase it dramatically due to the higher dose at prolonged time

Now Im thinking maybe I should just stay with the gels and add an E2 inhibitor


#19

I went for a consultation with a new Dr who is in network. I wanted a second opinion about pellets. This guy is a urologist, not a fertility clinic . the bulk of his patients are prostate issues and urology issues, but he does treat a lot of low T also.
I showed him all my labs and he examined me.

He does shots and pellets and gels.

He said he would do shots if I want, but he recommended PELLETS. He said that these days he is doing more and more pellets and less shots because he has found that pellets are more stabile and less likely to cause hematocrit issues and E2 spikes. I asked about bi weekly shots and he said that was all well and good, but injecting by-weekly still causes a small spike twice a week, where the pellet is one spike and a slow decline over 3 months.

Makes sense. Im happy I got the second opinion


#20

Pellets implanted today.
Totally painless.
Goof for 3 to 4 moths hopefully
I am so happy I don't have to deal with gels or shots now