T Nation

Should I Cycle


#1

Age 24,183,5'9.5 years training, started at 205 skinny fat. Bench 315x1, deads :405x3 and squats 225x8.

I think I should look into cycling, since I've been notice g a lot of kids at the gym being smaller than me and looking worse to cycle and get bigger. I think that since I know how to train and make gains well while being a natty, I can rock cycling. But I wanted to see what people who have previously cycled thought.
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#2

hgh belly in da house


#3

Thanks for that reply, answered all my questions broseph.


#4

If youve been seriously training for 5 years and look like that, you havent been serious, no offense. Get serious. Your lifts are pretty weak. Especially squats. You sound and look like a typical bro at the gym.

So your reasoning for wanting to cycle is because of other people? Not good.

Whats your diet and training look like


#5

if you enjoy training the way you do and are making gains, there’s no reason to cycle just because some guys at the gym suggest it.

do it because it seems necessary to you, not other people. if it’s not necessary to you, then don’t do it…


#6

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If youve been seriously training for 5 years and look like that, you havent been serious, no offense. Get serious. Your lifts are pretty weak. Especially squats. You sound and look like a typical bro at the gym.

So your reasoning for wanting to cycle is because of other people? Not good.

Whats your diet and training look like[/quote]
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know. My squats are weak because I have snapping hip. No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. Arms are 16sh at 12%. my reasoning is that I want to know how much I can physically change my body from what I was originally was (skinny and fat 205).
I do 3 days on, 1 day off. Diet is mainly lean protein and rest is veggies, and I’ll throw in carb days, depending on if I’m cutting or maintaining or bulking. Increase portion size instead of adding new food.


#7

If the question is what sort of change can be expected rather than what you should do:

I’ll use myself as an example, because results I’ve seen in many others have been similar as well, so I’m a reasonable example and I know exactly what has happened long term.

I didn’t start weight training till 30. I don’t think I gained any significant muscle and no height between 18 and then; I simply got a bit fatter. At 18 I was 147 and reasonably lean, say 8% as a guess? So if true, 135 lb LBM. At 30 I was 155 with the extra 8 lb or so just being fat.

My first three years of training, my strength went up by a large percentage, say doubled, but mass gain was not good. This was because I followed Ellington Darden-style HIT to the letter in this period. No disrespect to Darden: he’s a good author and has helped a lot of people and if what he says is taken as being among the things one should consider, there’s a lot to learn from him. Just don’t make it 100% of a program, on personal experience. I ended this phase at about 158 at 6% bf by underwater weighing or 8% by skinfold, with in this case the skinfold being more accurate I’d say. So, 145 lb LBM. Disappointing mass gains indeed. However, very substantial improvement in appearance anyway, and double the strength at least.

I then threw off the HIT blinders and trained more conventionally. By the 6 year point I was at about 174 lb, again at the 8% bf reference, so about 160 lb LBM. I felt like I was now at a point where further natural gains would have been quite slow, a couple of pounds per year perhaps for a while. I felt I had my training genuinely decent: training wasn’t the problem nor was nutrition.

I underwent some high stress as well as being sick for about 3 weeks and both lost muscle and gained some fat, and looked like crap, yet wanted to have better muscle size for a given date. Was low 180’s. Did a 2 week cycle and was 205 on the date with considerably more muscle. Subtracting out added muscle glycogen and glycogen associated water weight and imagining I might have gained 2 lb fat during those weeks from big eating, still 10-12 lb of muscle put on.

With subsequent cycles I got to where 205 at mid 6% bodyfat was easy and normal as my off-cycle condition, so about 192 lb LBM. At that condition, up about 32 lb LBM from natural best, and about 70 lb LBM from starting point.

Biggest I was was 224 at 10-12% bf (not measured), so about 197-202 lb LBM.

This is all with what I consider conservative use (except some would say that gram/week or moderately gram-plus per week isn’t conservative.)

While it can illustrate gains, hopefully it will also illustrate waiting until having the act together with training and nutrition.

A huge problem with starting steroid use before having the training and nutrition genuinely where they ought to be is that steroid use masks all kinds of errors. And a dependency gets set up where, basically, it seems hopeless to train without steroids.

I would get the training and nutrition more solid, to where you can be more confident of the value of the other 34-35 weeks per year (if using steroids 1/3 of the weeks of the year.) If using steroids too soon, those other weeks of the year tend to suck and continue to suck.


#8

[quote]InRigid wrote:
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know… No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. [/quote]

I don’t know what either of these points have to do with cycling. You can get a really quality bike for about 500 bucks. Then you should be able to do all the cycling you want! Cycling is great for leg development. There are some cyclists with huge quads. Very impressive. I don’t see any reason not to cycle if you really enjoy it. I personally prefer lifting weights, but hey, do what you do!


#9

[quote]InRigid wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If youve been seriously training for 5 years and look like that, you havent been serious, no offense. Get serious. Your lifts are pretty weak. Especially squats. You sound and look like a typical bro at the gym.

So your reasoning for wanting to cycle is because of other people? Not good.

Whats your diet and training look like[/quote]
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know. My squats are weak because I have snapping hip. No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. Arms are 16sh at 12%. my reasoning is that I want to know how much I can physically change my body from what I was originally was (skinny and fat 205).
I do 3 days on, 1 day off. Diet is mainly lean protein and rest is veggies, and I’ll throw in carb days, depending on if I’m cutting or maintaining or bulking. Increase portion size instead of adding new food. [/quote]

hey do what you want, who am I to tell you what to do. That’s just my opinion.


#10

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]InRigid wrote:
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know… No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. [/quote]

I don’t know what either of these points have to do with cycling. You can get a really quality bike for about 500 bucks. Then you should be able to do all the cycling you want! Cycling is great for leg development. There are some cyclists with huge quads. Very impressive. I don’t see any reason not to cycle if you really enjoy it. I personally prefer lifting weights, but hey, do what you do![/quote]

Because why do I have to play with the nattys when I can crush new competition using?

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]InRigid wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If youve been seriously training for 5 years and look like that, you havent been serious, no offense. Get serious. Your lifts are pretty weak. Especially squats. You sound and look like a typical bro at the gym.

So your reasoning for wanting to cycle is because of other people? Not good.

Whats your diet and training look like[/quote]
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know. My squats are weak because I have snapping hip. No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. Arms are 16sh at 12%. my reasoning is that I want to know how much I can physically change my body from what I was originally was (skinny and fat 205).
I do 3 days on, 1 day off. Diet is mainly lean protein and rest is veggies, and I’ll throw in carb days, depending on if I’m cutting or maintaining or bulking. Increase portion size instead of adding new food. [/quote]

hey do what you want, who am I to tell you what to do. That’s just my opinion.
[/quote]
I am asking for you opinion, but maybe I should mention how big I want to get. I don’t want to get over 205 in my ideals. Nothing too big, but everything proportionally filled out. Your look is too big, doesn’t match my personality. So I’m asking, if I want to get to that size, would you do it? Or do you actually beleive everyone in your everyday gym can deadlift 405 or 1rm 315.


#11

Pretty much (but not counting those who are particularly unfortunate physically) every man can DL 405 for 1 with 5 years or less proper training, yes. On the 315 1RM bench, if having the structure for it, again, routine within 5 years or less.

It is interesting, to me anyway, how much difference there can be in different gyms in different cities. On traveling to different cities and visiting various gyms, I’ve been amazed by how in some places, it’s routine for guys to move serious weight, and in others, almost nobody in the gym is doing a thing relative to their bodyweight. Within a given gym or geographic area, if there are other guys lifting big, that raises the bar, but if the bar is low, then almost everybody settles for lifting relatively light, and weights like yours become the local exception rather than being perfectly ordinary.

Maybe it’s like other sports: before anyone ran the 4 minute mile, such a figure was a dream, and would represent incredible eliteness. Now what is it, nothing in particular, because other guys are doing it.

I’m sure in some gyms your results are exceptional. It’s entirely possible that in your gym your results are outstanding. In general, they’re reasonable for your time put into it but don’t suggest being at a dead end for further natural development.


#12

Why would you cycle steroids just to 205lbs at your height?

Why do you compare yourself to average people in the gym? Who gives a fuck about average?


#13

[quote]InRigid wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]InRigid wrote:
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know… No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. [/quote]

I don’t know what either of these points have to do with cycling. You can get a really quality bike for about 500 bucks. Then you should be able to do all the cycling you want! Cycling is great for leg development. There are some cyclists with huge quads. Very impressive. I don’t see any reason not to cycle if you really enjoy it. I personally prefer lifting weights, but hey, do what you do![/quote]

Because why do I have to play with the nattys when I can crush new competition using?

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]InRigid wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If youve been seriously training for 5 years and look like that, you havent been serious, no offense. Get serious. Your lifts are pretty weak. Especially squats. You sound and look like a typical bro at the gym.

So your reasoning for wanting to cycle is because of other people? Not good.

Whats your diet and training look like[/quote]
I don’t agree, I’ve out gained everyone I know. My squats are weak because I have snapping hip. No offence taken, but I look better than some dudes juicing. Arms are 16sh at 12%. my reasoning is that I want to know how much I can physically change my body from what I was originally was (skinny and fat 205).
I do 3 days on, 1 day off. Diet is mainly lean protein and rest is veggies, and I’ll throw in carb days, depending on if I’m cutting or maintaining or bulking. Increase portion size instead of adding new food. [/quote]

hey do what you want, who am I to tell you what to do. That’s just my opinion.
[/quote]
I am asking for you opinion, but maybe I should mention how big I want to get. I don’t want to get over 205 in my ideals. Nothing too big, but everything proportionally filled out. Your look is too big, doesn’t match my personality. So I’m asking, if I want to get to that size, would you do it? Or do you actually beleive everyone in your everyday gym can deadlift 405 or 1rm 315.[/quote]

Numbers arent the deciding factor. Im just saying after 5 years you should be further along in development, granted, i dont know how serious you actually are or how consistent, definitely not bad progress but you could push yourself a lot more, and i believe steroids should be saved for the people that do that.


#14

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Pretty much (but not counting those who are particularly unfortunate physically) every man can DL 405 for 1 with 5 years or less proper training, yes. On the 315 1RM bench, if having the structure for it, again, routine within 5 years or less.

It is interesting, to me anyway, how much difference there can be in different gyms in different cities. On traveling to different cities and visiting various gyms, I’ve been amazed by how in some places, it’s routine for guys to move serious weight, and in others, almost nobody in the gym is doing a thing relative to their bodyweight. Within a given gym or geographic area, if there are other guys lifting big, that raises the bar, but if the bar is low, then almost everybody settles for lifting relatively light, and weights like yours become the local exception rather than being perfectly ordinary.

Maybe it’s like other sports: before anyone ran the 4 minute mile, such a figure was a dream, and would represent incredible eliteness. Now what is it, nothing in particular, because other guys are doing it.

I’m sure in some gyms your results are exceptional. It’s entirely possible that in your gym your results are outstanding. In general, they’re reasonable for your time put into it but don’t suggest being at a dead end for further natural development.[/quote]
I agree, the guys around here don’t lift very much.

dt79: a lean 205 is very good, I don’t understand why not?

eatliftsleep: Granted I’ve been injured and traveled around in that time, so I’ve had maybe 18-20 months off sporadically in that 5, but I still count it as 5 years. What are some normal nattys looking like at 5 years with injuries and what are their lifts? I haven’t seen many good results. Maybe I’m just in the wrong places, like bill said.


#15

A lean 205 is good but you don’t need fucking gear to get to a lean 205 that is why he said what he said. Unless your running gear for strength purposes then get fucking jacked and 205 at 5’9" is not jacked. I know I have been 205 at 5’6" and I wasn’t jacked. Much larger than average but nothing impressive. Still not considering I got stupid with my dieting. Your goals are mediocre and do not need gear to do what you want. I’m not here to tell you not to do it that’s your choice and you do look better than most people who come on here as long to use. With that being said is it worth risking permanent shut down, hair loss, infertility (I know I know), or jail time to look simply put average?


#16

Does nobody else notice the hgh belly?


#17

[quote]InRigid wrote:

Because why do I have to play with the nattys when I can crush new competition using?

[/quote]

What is this competition? The only competition you mentioned is looking better than other guys at your gym. If you just want to rub other gym rats’ noses in the dirt that’s kinda sad, and not a reason to cycle.

What are steroids for? They were first used for athletes to improve injury recovery times and other athletic qualities. Then bodybuilding became a thing and guys kept figuring out how to get huger and huger. That’s what steroids are for. If you aren’t an athlete and you’re not trying to get huge than you should not cycle


#18

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Does nobody else notice the hgh belly?[/quote]

Lol, it is pretty prominent, however i doubt its from gh, right op?


#19

Damn. If I had that preggo type belly without gh I’d probably be at a doctor trying to figure out how the fuck to get rid of its nasty ass.


#20

[quote] InRigid wrote: Age 24,183,5’9.5 years training, started at 205 skinny fat. Bench 315x1, deads :405x3 and squats 225x8.

Arms are 16sh at 12%

What are some normal nattys looking like at 5 years with injuries and what are their lifts? I haven’t seen many good results. [/quote]

I normally stay away from shit like this but considering I am drug free, the same age (24), height (69 in), started at the same place (200 lbs), and have roughly the same training experience (4 consecutive years) as you I will indulge.

I had 16.5" arms at a BW of 163 at about 7% BF. Don’t believe me go check my old BB Prep Log on here. I currently have 17.5" arms and 26.5" thighs at a relatively lean (about 12-15% BF) 196 lbs.

My current maxes are (at a BW of 196-198) a 600 lb deadlift (in competition), 475 lb squat (in competition), 500 lb squat (in the gym), and a 320 lb Bench (in competition). Again all the videos are posted throughout T-Nation if you do not believe me.

Concerning injuries, I have Perthes Disease in my right hip which has caused me to battle with arthritis for as long as I can remember.

So as far as “crushing the competition” goes, I think you have a long way to go. I obviously think that every goal you have stated thus far is achievable drug free, but hell what do I know?