T Nation

Should I Bulk or Go On With the Cut???


#1


I am a 21 year old who wants to improve his body. I started going to gym 4 days a week around this time in march so like 4 months now. I had a bit of fat so i mainly just focused on losing fat. Do i keep losing the weight or do i just say fuck it and bulk. How much fat do i have left to lose for abs. I am 158 lbs currently, height is 5'9 in a half.


#2

Bump


#3

[quote]ShadowPaper wrote:
I had a bit of fat so i mainly just focused on losing fat. Do i keep losing the weight or do i just say fuck it and bulk.[/quote]
Some more details about your current training, diet, and best lifts would help. What are your long term goals?

Not sure exactly where you started, but it seems like you’re in a pretty good place so far, even though we can’t see your legs or back. As long as you’re not on a chest/shoulder/arms-only bro split, I’d probably stick with what’s been working until it stops working, and then switch gears.

10 pounds? 15 pounds? Really tough to tell from that one low quality pic.


#4

Chris is right a little more detail is needed. I dont think you need a strict cut though. You have a decent structure. I would just try to continue getting stronger in the big lifts and possible start a carb cycling approach where you have carbs around your training and lower carbs on off days. I think a outright bulk would be bad as well. You are still new to the game and you could probably advance well


#5

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

Not sure exactly where you started, but it seems like you’re in a pretty good place so far, even though we can’t see your legs or back. As long as you’re not on a chest/shoulder/arms-only bro split, I’d probably stick with what’s been working until it stops working, and then switch gears.

10 pounds? 15 pounds? Really tough to tell from that one low quality pic.[/quote]

I started around 185 lbs .The thing is as of now, i dont think i look much different. Here is a pic. This was a picture in december, but i literally did nothing until march.


#6

[/quote] Some more details about your current training, diet, and best lifts would help. What are your long term goals?

Not sure exactly where you started, but it seems like you’re in a pretty good place so far, even though we can’t see your legs or back. As long as you’re not on a chest/shoulder/arms-only bro split, I’d probably stick with what’s been working until it stops working, and then switch gears. [/quote]

here goes…

Diet:
heres all what i ate today, i use the lose it app to track calories. I was over today.

Pasta 4 oz
Cottage cheese 1 cup
Pasta Sauce 1/2 cup
15 almonds.
A total of 16 oz of Salmon with (ate that at 2 different times of the day)
I also ate 2 slices of pizza(how do guys deal with situations where you have to eat out, with like coworkers, family, friends, etc)

Totals out to around 1928 calories.

67 g fat, 165 g carbs, 176 g protein.

lifting:

I was in and out of the gym last year, basically i just went with friends and fucked around.

This is from march onwards.

I did this for the first 2 months.

For the last 2 month i’ve been doing this.

Day 1
Bench press: 4 sets 6-12 reps.
Incline press: 4 sets 6 to 12 reps.
Dumbell flyes: 4 sets 6 to 12 reps
Flies(the machine kind): 4 sets 6 to 12 reps.
Dips: 4 sets 6 to 12 reps.
Tricep pushdown: 4 sets 6 to 12 reps.
Skullcrushers: 3 sets 6 to 12 reps.

Day 2
Wide grip pulldowns 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Medium grip pulldowns 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Closed grip pulldowns 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Rows 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Stiff-Legged deadlift 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Deadlift 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Preacher Curl 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Hammer Curls 4 sets of 6-12 reps
Incline Curls 4 sets 6-12 reps

Day 3:

Barbell shoulder press
4 sets of 6-12reps
Dumbell shoulder press
4 sets of 6-12 reps
Front Raise Front
3 sets of 6-12 reps
Lateral Raise
3 sets 6-12 reps
Upright Row Smith 6-12 reps
Shrugs 4 sets of 6-12 reps

Day 4:
Leg Extensions
3 sets of 6-12 reps
Leg Curls: 3 sets of 6-12 reps
Squats: 4 sets 6-12 reps
Leg Press 4 sets 6-12 reps

lifts??? As of this last week.

Bench: 2 70 lb dumbells.
Deadlift: 175 lbs
Squat: 205 lbs, but i lowered down to 25 lbs on each side, cuz i wasn’t going low.

As far as long term goals, is wanting to become massive a goal, like 19 inch arms???


#7

Geez I’m glad I don’t do workouts like that any more.

I’d say you are looking much better than when you started.


#8

If your goal is 19 inch arms, why are you coming and asking about abs?


#9

[quote]Silyak wrote:
If your goal is 19 inch arms, why are you coming and asking about abs?[/quote]

I wanna be lean too


#10

Ya so shud I. Go and bulk or keep cutting


#11

[quote]ShadowPaper wrote:
Ya so shud I. Go and bulk or keep cutting[/quote]

If you want to be lean, you’re going to have to lose the fat now or later.

It’s really up to you when you want that to happen. It may be easier to build muscle if you’re leaner first, just from an insulin sensitivity standpoint, but one way or another, if you want to be bigger and leaner, you’re going to have to get both bigger and leaner. Pick one, do that, then do the other.

Now… if I were you, I’d focus on getting bigger first.

I’d say you have probably 10 lbs of fat to lose if you want to see your upper abs fairly well while relaxed, and 15 or so if you want to actually be truly lean. But that’s assuming you lose only fat and minimal muscle, and I’m not convinced you have the experience to make that happen yet.

But, you’ll look better at 155+ with well defined abs than 145 with abs, so I’d focus on making sure you actually have something to show first.


#12

I’m worried if I bulk now I’ll end up as fat as I started,


#13

Stop being worried. Eat some food add in some clean calories of Protein and Carbs your good to go. The way your eating now is not going to give you 19" arms at 5’9" hat to break it to you. I have small as arms I fucking hate them only 5’6" with 17.25in arms weigh in at 228. So if you want 19" arms and being lean your gonna need alot more clean food, time and possibly even drugs after a while. A honest lean 19" arm is not even close to a small feat to accomplish. Either pick abs or pick getting big.

Yes you can do both bit at a MUCH slower rate. I am not telling you to get fat and eat Pizza and Ice Cream for every meal. I’m telling you to stop thinking like a woman. I know for a fact at 225 and looking broad as fuck I am getting much more pussy than I was when I had abs and 190. Only people who really seem to care about abs are you and other guys.


#14

You don’t have to get fat when you’re bulking. Just eat 250-300 grams of protein a day. 100g of protein from shakes and whatnot and the rest coming from meats. All of your fats should come from meats,eggs,healthy nuts and fish oil. Consume most of your carbs in the pre intra and post workout period. LIFT BIG EAT BIG. I would suggest a 5/3/1 with bodybuilding style accessories.

Your big lifts need improvement so focus on getting stronger and putting the right shit in your body instead of “should i cut or bulk”. You dont have to eat pizza when you go out with youre co workers/family/friends. If you are really about this life then you will make it work.


#15

[quote]ShadowPaper wrote:
The thing is as of now, i dont think i look much different.[/quote]
You’re high if you don’t see a difference. It’s obviously a different angle and different lighting, but you seem to have lost noticeable fat from your waistline and moobs. Not saying you’re ready to step on stage, but there’s been legit progress. Now, with that said, let’s get critical:

[quote]Pasta 4 oz
Cottage cheese 1 cup
Pasta Sauce 1/2 cup
15 almonds.
16 oz of Salmon
2 slices of pizza

176 g protein.[/quote]
Unless I’m missing something, 1 cup of cottage cheese and 16 oz of salmon (the only serious protein sources you ate) is not 176g of protein. A quick look at some numbers shows around 100-110g, maybe. You’ve got to make sure there’s a quality source of protein every time you eat. That’s muscle-building 101.

[quote]I did this for the first 2 months.

For the last 2 month i’ve been doing this.
…[/quote]
Your current plan is nuts. Tons of stuff wrong with it - redundant exercises, volume imbalance, set/rep scheme problems, just… whoa. Go back to the Tried and True program or almost any other plan in the Archive.

Your goals are your own thing, so that’s fine, but just understand what a 19-inch arm on a 5’9"/5’10" person really is. For reference, 4-time Mr. Universe Bill Pearl was about your height and had 17 1/2-inch arms at 200 pounds and 19 1/2-inch arms at 230 pounds.

I’m not saying don’t set big goals, but a key principle of S.M.A.R.T. goal-setting is keeping it realistic:


#16

[quote]Reed wrote:
Stop being worried. Eat some food add in some clean calories of Protein and Carbs your good to go. The way your eating now is not going to give you 19" arms at 5’9" hat to break it to you. I have small as arms I fucking hate them only 5’6" with 17.25in arms weigh in at 228. So if you want 19" arms and being lean your gonna need alot more clean food, time and possibly even drugs after a while. A honest lean 19" arm is not even close to a small feat to accomplish. Either pick abs or pick getting big.

Yes you can do both bit at a MUCH slower rate. I am not telling you to get fat and eat Pizza and Ice Cream for every meal. I’m telling you to stop thinking like a woman. I know for a fact at 225 and looking broad as fuck I am getting much more pussy than I was when I had abs and 190. Only people who really seem to care about abs are you and other guys.[/quote]

Reed, we might be long lost brothers. I have a slight man crush on you. No homo


#17

[quote]ShadowPaper wrote:
I’m worried if I bulk now I’ll end up as fat as I started,[/quote]

Then spend the next 6-8 weeks focusing specifically on fat loss. Go no lower than 150 lbs. At 1 lb a week, it should take you 7 weeks.

Eat at least 180g of protein a day, every day. For everything else, eat to lose at a steady rate. Again, try to stay right around 1 lb a week.

Drink a minimum of a half a gallon of water a day. If you can drink plain water without issues, great. Otherwise, use crystal light, MiO, gatorade powder, whatever it takes. A gallon+ a day would be even better.

Stop doing your current lifting program.

Pick one of these two options:
1)

  • any lifting template from the Greyskull LP book – squat twice a week, deadlift/pull once a week, alternate bench press and overhead press. MAKE SURE you get weight or rep PRs every single session
  • 20 minutes of incline walking, 5 days a week, keeping your heart rate between 120-130 BPM
  • any 20-rep squat program that includes some amount of both pressing and pulling (whether it be overhead pressing, bench pressing, pullups or rows); don’t worry about resetting anything, just stick at a weight until you hit it for the prescribed reps, then increase the weight. Again, set a PR every single time, either more reps or more weight.
  • no additional cardio

Do a few sets of kneeling ab rollouts twice a week after your lifting session. Do some high rep sets of face pulls or band pullaparts every lifting session.

After those 6-8 weeks, you should be pretty happy with where that leaves you. Then you can start your clean bulk.

Are there other ways to do that? Sure. The same principles will apply regardless of your approach.


#18

[quote]tyler_j_reed wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Stop being worried. Eat some food add in some clean calories of Protein and Carbs your good to go. The way your eating now is not going to give you 19" arms at 5’9" hat to break it to you. I have small as arms I fucking hate them only 5’6" with 17.25in arms weigh in at 228. So if you want 19" arms and being lean your gonna need alot more clean food, time and possibly even drugs after a while. A honest lean 19" arm is not even close to a small feat to accomplish. Either pick abs or pick getting big.

Yes you can do both bit at a MUCH slower rate. I am not telling you to get fat and eat Pizza and Ice Cream for every meal. I’m telling you to stop thinking like a woman. I know for a fact at 225 and looking broad as fuck I am getting much more pussy than I was when I had abs and 190. Only people who really seem to care about abs are you and other guys.[/quote]

Reed, we might be long lost brothers. I have a slight man crush on you. No homo[/quote]

Hahahaha I was kinda thinking the,same thing when I saw your post and user name


#19

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]ShadowPaper wrote:
I’m worried if I bulk now I’ll end up as fat as I started,[/quote]

Then spend the next 6-8 weeks focusing specifically on fat loss. Go no lower than 150 lbs. At 1 lb a week, it should take you 7 weeks.

Eat at least 180g of protein a day, every day. For everything else, eat to lose at a steady rate. Again, try to stay right around 1 lb a week.

Drink a minimum of a half a gallon of water a day. If you can drink plain water without issues, great. Otherwise, use crystal light, MiO, gatorade powder, whatever it takes. A gallon+ a day would be even better.

Stop doing your current lifting program.

Pick one of these two options:
1)

  • any lifting template from the Greyskull LP book – squat twice a week, deadlift/pull once a week, alternate bench press and overhead press. MAKE SURE you get weight or rep PRs every single session
  • 20 minutes of incline walking, 5 days a week, keeping your heart rate between 120-130 BPM
  • any 20-rep squat program that includes some amount of both pressing and pulling (whether it be overhead pressing, bench pressing, pullups or rows); don’t worry about resetting anything, just stick at a weight until you hit it for the prescribed reps, then increase the weight. Again, set a PR every single time, either more reps or more weight.
  • no additional cardio

Do a few sets of kneeling ab rollouts twice a week after your lifting session. Do some high rep sets of face pulls or band pullaparts every lifting session.

After those 6-8 weeks, you should be pretty happy with where that leaves you. Then you can start your clean bulk.

Are there other ways to do that? Sure. The same principles will apply regardless of your approach.[/quote]

Lol does the stairmaster count as incline walking??? Ya i’ll ditch what im doing now. Ya i’ve been trying 1.5 to 2 lbs a week so far, 1 lb a week will be better i guess cuz i can eat more =))))). Why only 1 though?? Just curious.


#20

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]ShadowPaper wrote:
The thing is as of now, i dont think i look much different.[/quote]
You’re high if you don’t see a difference. It’s obviously a different angle and different lighting, but you seem to have lost noticeable fat from your waistline and moobs. Not saying you’re ready to step on stage, but there’s been legit progress. Now, with that said, let’s get critical:

[quote]Pasta 4 oz
Cottage cheese 1 cup
Pasta Sauce 1/2 cup
15 almonds.
16 oz of Salmon
2 slices of pizza

176 g protein.[/quote]
Unless I’m missing something, 1 cup of cottage cheese and 16 oz of salmon (the only serious protein sources you ate) is not 176g of protein. A quick look at some numbers shows around 100-110g, maybe. You’ve got to make sure there’s a quality source of protein every time you eat. That’s muscle-building 101.

[quote]I did this for the first 2 months.

For the last 2 month i’ve been doing this.
…[/quote]
Your current plan is nuts. Tons of stuff wrong with it - redundant exercises, volume imbalance, set/rep scheme problems, just… whoa. Go back to the Tried and True program or almost any other plan in the Archive.

Your goals are your own thing, so that’s fine, but just understand what a 19-inch arm on a 5’9"/5’10" person really is. For reference, 4-time Mr. Universe Bill Pearl was about your height and had 17 1/2-inch arms at 200 pounds and 19 1/2-inch arms at 230 pounds.

I’m not saying don’t set big goals, but a key principle of S.M.A.R.T. goal-setting is keeping it realistic:


[/quote]

Ya 19 is unrealistic at this point haha. Is 16 or 17 more realistic??