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Should a Teenager Do Keto/Paleo?

Im 15 and I’ve been wanting to start one of these two. I’d plan on doing the cyclic keto diet, but I’m having doubts. Should a teenager avoid these diets? What’s something I can do to get all my nutrients in on a calorie deficit?

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Im 15 and I’ve been wanting to start one of these two. I’d plan on doing the cyclic keto diet, but I’m having doubts. Should a teenager avoid these diets? What’s something I can do to get all my nutrients in on a calorie deficit?[/quote]

It’s not a matter of should but rather a matter of why.

Do you need to lose weight or are you using diet to help enhance your training?

There is nothing unhealthful about being in a state of ketosis. You should be mildly ketogenic upon waking every morning until your first meal. If you are not diabetic there should be no fear of ketoacidosis.

To get all your nutrient requirements just eat real food. Really! It’s as simple as that.

Eat a variety of fresh, colorful vegetables and whole, naturally raised meat, fish, and eggs.

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Should a teenager avoid these diets?[/quote]
Yes.

As you’ve been told before, you’re at a stage where you can see solid results simply by eating “good food” (lean proteins, healthy fats, fruits, vegetables) more often than you eat “junk food” while training hard several days per week. Significantly cutting back on, or cutting out, macronutrients isn’t necessary.

Learn how to cook eggs, chicken, and burgers, so you can prepare more of your own meals. I’m not sure how much say you have in the groceries that are bought, so it’s probably going to be difficult eating “paleo” if your folks aren’t on board with it.

And in any case, low-carb diets aren’t the only way to drop bodyfat. Nate Miyaki has written a bit about it:


Ok thanks also…best time to eat carbs is after workout to help protein synthesis and before sleep to prevent catabolism right?

Dude, you’re fifteen. Your body is super anabolic right now. Just relax and eat real food.

You will gain muscle like no one’s business just by sleeping more.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
As you’ve been told before…
[/quote]
Oh, it’s the attention span guy.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/hurrdurrgomad#myForums/thread/5439788/

OP, just read articles and learn to be healthy

OK guys thanks for the advice, last question…what is the best time of the day to eat my complex carbs/starchy vegetables/fruits/meats etc? I plan on eating healthy but I’m wondering if each of these has its own optimal time for eating for maximum nutritional benefits.

Also, post workout carbs? Yes or no?

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
OK guys thanks for the advice, last question…what is the best time of the day to eat my complex carbs/starchy vegetables/fruits/meats etc? I plan on eating healthy but I’m wondering if each of these has its own optimal time for eating for maximum nutritional benefits.
Also, post workout carbs? Yes or no?[/quote]

Hi kiddo,

First I would like to commend you on your obvious commitment to improving your nutrition. I wish I started the lifestyle at your age.

I would eat complex carbs in a meal shortly after working out, and of-course include protein. If your training hard, there is no harm in eating carbs for example the night before your morning gym session.
I wouldnt stress too much about timing though, just eat as clean as you can. No need to stress about eating fruit, as long as your not eating ridiculous amounts(i.e. more than 10 servings a day).

Post your daily diet and training program, and we can maybe give you some more tips.

Uncle Bird.

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Live by this rule…the more you cook, the better you look!

[quote]theBird wrote:

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
OK guys thanks for the advice, last question…what is the best time of the day to eat my complex carbs/starchy vegetables/fruits/meats etc? I plan on eating healthy but I’m wondering if each of these has its own optimal time for eating for maximum nutritional benefits.
Also, post workout carbs? Yes or no?[/quote]

Hi kiddo,

First I would like to commend you on your obvious commitment to improving your nutrition. I wish I started the lifestyle at your age.

I would eat complex carbs in a meal shortly after working out, and of-course include protein. If your training hard, there is no harm in eating carbs for example the night before your morning gym session.
I wouldnt stress too much about timing though, just eat as clean as you can. No need to stress about eating fruit, as long as your not eating ridiculous amounts(i.e. more than 10 servings a day).

Post your daily diet and training program, and we can maybe give you some more tips.

Uncle Bird.

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Well I’m been doing an ABxABxx routine where A is upper and B is lower. Every muscle group gets 2 days of rest so it has plenty of time to recuperate. On upper days I do bench, row and press on opposite ends of the workout. The upper day looks like this:
Bench 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Dumbell row 3x8
Chin ups 4x6
Bicep curls 3x8
OHP 5x5
Dumbbell press 3x8
Dumbbell bench 3x8
Would do dips but can’t so I do tri extension.

The lower day looks like:
Squat 5x5
Leg press 3x8
Back extensions 3x8
Deadlift 2x5 (one warmup set one working set)
Glute ham raises 3x8
Then I do this grip exercise where I take a barbell loaded with 225 and hold it like the end of a deadlift for 30 seconds.

Anything you would add/take away? I’ve been doing this for a week and I’ve added 5 pounds to all my 5 main lifts (row, bench, press, squat, dead).

Good work. Your training is fine for a beginner. Maybe add in some rear delt raises, face-pulls and consider adding in some single leg work

Now post your diet.

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[quote]theBird wrote:
Good work. Your training is fine for a beginner. Maybe add in some rear delt raises, face-pulls and consider adding in some single leg work

Now post your diet.

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For breakfast today had 3 egg whites, two glasses of water and some ham. For lunch I’m having a salad, fruit, and two chicken breasts. After I go to the gym I eat a protein bar and go home and have two scoops of whey and some oatmeal/whole weat bread/any complex carb. Then I go to wrestling and have a shit ton of water. For dinner I usually have chicken breast, grean beans with olive oil and rice.

[quote]theBird wrote:
Your training is fine for a beginner.[/quote]
No.

If you think that training plan is “fine” for a beginner or anyone really, you should slow down before giving advice.

[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
For breakfast today had 3 egg whites, two glasses of water and some ham. For lunch I’m having a salad, fruit, and two chicken breasts. After I go to the gym I eat a protein bar and go home and have two scoops of whey and some oatmeal/whole weat bread/any complex carb. Then I go to wrestling and have a shit ton of water. For dinner I usually have chicken breast, grean beans with olive oil and rice.[/quote]
What the holy hell, dude. It would’ve been great to know you were a wrestler before, but okay…

First of all, a “meal” of a few egg whites does not belong in the diet of a teenager, let alone a guy who’s lifting. Whole eggs are tons more beneficial.

Secondly, and most importantly, WTF man, if you’re wrestling, you do not eat a low carb diet. What’s your wrestling schedule like - how often are practices and how long are they?

Even if you want to lose some fat, you’re much better off giving your body plenty of nutrition and then going hard in training (the lifting and the wrestling practice), instead of restricting nutrients and doing the best you can in training.

Here’s what I want you to do…

For lifting, “cardio”, and wrestling, read this:

Jim Wendler is a fucking brilliant strength coach and he’s tremendously well-respected by pretty much everyone who’s touched a barbell in the last 10 years. This is what he would’ve had himself doing as a young teen. Follow the plan.

For eating, forget everything you’ve “learned” about bodybuilding nutrition so far. Eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner and have protein, fats, and carbs in each of those meals. Have a shake before, during, or after you lift. When you have wrestling practice or run, have some protein and carbs before (either a shake or some food). If you’re hungry, have a basic, common sense healthy snack during the day.

Don’t overthink it, just “eat healthy.” If you feel like having a soda and popcorn when you’re at the movies with that girl in class who looks like iCarly, enjoy it, just don’t have Snickers and Sprite for breakfast.

Do this simple, simple stuff 7 days a week for the next 12 or 16 weeks and your body will change for the better - stronger, faster, better conditioned, leaner, more muscular. Or you could continue to overthink things and follow a shady program, spin your wheels for months, and end up with minimal results.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]theBird wrote:
Your training is fine for a beginner.[/quote]
No.
If you think that training plan is “fine” for a beginner or anyone really, you should slow down before giving advice.
[/quote]

Hey kiddo,

I suppose Colluci has a point. It will be good for you to get in the habit of following a set program. If you decide to follow his advice you will have to learn to power clean, deadlift and squat, which can all be technical lifts. Although I suppose it will be good for you to learn… if you can consider hiring a trainer to teach you those lifts.

Saying that, I think you lifting program isnt too bad. As long as you try keep progressing with the lifts. Remember once you start to plateau with your lifts, it may be time to look at changing things up/doing another program.

Uncle Bird

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[quote]hurrdurrgomad wrote:
Im 15 and I’ve been wanting to start one of these two. I’d plan on doing the cyclic keto diet, but I’m having doubts. Should a teenager avoid these diets? What’s something I can do to get all my nutrients in on a calorie deficit?[/quote]

a keto diet is fine for most anyone, regardless of age. re wrestling - Steve Maxwell has won world championships in BJJ on a keto diet, however, I would not switch to such a diet in season as adaptation needs to take place in order to perform well. I’d probably also carb up after the weigh in. The amount of time between weigh in and match would determine the kind and amount of carbs…

all this being said, a keto diet needs way more fat (more food too) than you are currently eating. Whole eggs and red meat should constitute most of your food with vegetables on the side.

Here’s another anecdotal tidbit on performance: the English rugby team beat Australia to win their first ever world cup ever ON A LOW CARB DIET.

[quote]theBird wrote:
If you decide to follow his advice you will have to learn to power clean, deadlift and squat, which can all be technical lifts.[/quote]
There are a lot of “technical” lifts, especially for beginners. That’s not a bad thing.

It’s not absolutely necessary to hire a trainer to learn form. It can help, for sure, but it’s not a must. A little reading and watching some videos to learn technique, starting light, prioritizing solid technique rather than carelessly adding weight, and simply respecting the exercise will all go a long way towards teaching yourself proper technique.

[quote]Cubuff2028 wrote:
a keto diet is fine for most anyone, regardless of age.[/quote]
“Fine” in the sense that it can be done, I agree. But an overweight 15-year old who doesn’t have a good training program in place and doesn’t have down the basics of nutrition doesn’t need to jump right into a macro-restrictive diet.

There’s no doubt that bodybuilders/athletes (including those two you mentioned, who were already towards the top of their sports) can see great results on a keto/low carb diet, but for this kid we’re talking to, I don’t think it’s an avenue worth encouraging yet.

Don’t go low carb. This is not the best idea for someone trying to gain muscle. Carbohydrates are protein sparing. Do eat tons of fruits and vegetables, and do not be afraid of white rice and potatoes.

[quote]theBird wrote:

. If you decide to follow his advice you will have to learn to power clean, deadlift and squat, which can all be technical lifts. Although I suppose it will be good for you to learn… if you can consider hiring a trainer to teach you those lifts.

Uncle Bird

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Arent those the ‘foundation’ movements of lifting? I would think they would be of the most important moves to learn. Also many people learn how to do these properly without a coach.

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Arent those the ‘foundation’ movements of lifting? I would think they would be of the most important moves to learn. Also many people learn how to do these properly without a coach.[/quote]

I suppose those are the foundation movements, although how mnay times do you see them performed incorrectly at your local gym?

I think we undervalue/under-rate the importance of proper coaching.

Uncle Bird.

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[quote]coyotegal wrote:

[quote]theBird wrote:

. If you decide to follow his advice you will have to learn to power clean, deadlift and squat, which can all be technical lifts. Although I suppose it will be good for you to learn… if you can consider hiring a trainer to teach you those lifts.

Uncle Bird

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Arent those the ‘foundation’ movements of lifting? I would think they would be of the most important moves to learn. Also many people learn how to do these properly without a coach.[/quote]

I might have powercleaned twice in my entire life.

I didn’t start deadlifting until my 4th year of training and now I’m on my 5th year. Squating is cool but, meh.

I suppose I would consider any movement one decided to do a foundation lift, unless you wanna be a powerlifter or strong man or something then maybe the lifts you mentioned would be pretty necessary.