[quote]gswork wrote:
A question for the knowledgeable.[/quote]
Most of my info and knowledge on this subject is from the great Bill Roberts, so look to his work for answers.[quote]
Consider that oral aas is quick to reach its half life therefore, presumably, quick to be active and quick to clear down to an inconsequential level.
Also that in the event of a receptor ‘receiving’, the biological process happens; it just does what it does immediately.
(are these premises correct?)[/quote]
I believe so.[quote]
Does that mean that the total gain from 1 week of taking oral aas will let you gain at same rate of gain as taking it for 6 weeks together, assuming everything else is the same.
In other words that there is no additional gain to be had from having several weeks on oral aas in sequence as against several weeks split apart here and there.[/quote]
I see what you are saying, but it isnt the case for all orals. take drol for example, that has a half life or around 8 hours, so if you do 100mg, with 50mg taken each 12hours, you will get cumulation of the drug.
Also it takes time for muscle to grow, you dont get gains of muscle in the first week even if you are using TNE. You will get water changes, but muscle needs stimulus, nutrients and time to breakdown, repair, supercompensate…[quote]
If there is then how does it work? It shouldn’t be a build up of T as that will be going up and clearing in hours after each tablet. Possibly a cumulative suppression of shbg or something else (if that happens cumulatively not in line with intake)? Possibly some cumulative effect on receptors, satellite cells or something else interesting along these lines.[/quote]
As i wrote above, it isnt JUST due to the increased levels of the AAS you have used, there are other mechanisms at play that allow you to grow at a faster pace. The same processes are being used to grow muscle by a natural or a doped athlete, but with the doped athlete the process is faster, more efficient, and there is generally a better catabolism:anabolism ratio. The processes doesnt magically ‘sprout’ muscle just because the drug is in there - thus why it is good to spend a long time (over 2-3 weeks) on a cycle as it gives more time to grow under these ‘perfect’ conditions.[/quote]
Likewise suppression of your own T happens via feedback. Is that cumulative or very quick - its very quick in managing your own system for example.[quote]
IIRC the suppression of the hypothalamus is very quick, in week 1 or 2.
But the suppression of the Pituitary is later, in week 3 or 4, which is the idea around the 2on,4off cycles… as the hypo is alot easier to ‘revive’ that full HPTA suppression.
the feedback is just the androgen being present which is detected by the HPTA (i do not know the specifics of this one i am afraid) which then begins to stop production of GnRH, LH and FSH as they arent deemed necessary as the test/androgen/steroid levels are way high enough already. its kinda like turning off a tap when a bucket spills over…[quote]
As an afterthought on that, if you timed oral aas, e.g. taking at times of naturally low levels of T (evening etc) would the natural morning level still be ok, as there’d not be much aas left in the system to stop normal feedback? (I doubt this would work, but interesting anyway)[/quote]
It is actually better to dose when natural levels are at their highest, as the body assumes this is down to the endogenous production and is a perfectly natural time to have raised levels. Then as the day goes on, the levels drop - as they do endogenously too.
If you dose at night, then you will have high levels during the early morning, and the HPTA wont stimulate the secretion of testosterone due to the negative feedback mechanism.[quote]
All a bit simplistic I know, but from reading around most people advise several weeks on oral aas because of habit and convention (also convenience, working in a cycle with a particular training/eating cycle and because I guess it’s nicer to gain 12lbs in 6 weeks than 2lbs in a week here and week there). I’d be interested in the physiological advantage of drawing out a longer oral aas cycle over several very short ones, if there is any real advantage.[/quote]
As i mentioned above, it is due to the fact it still takes time to build muscle… however, there is definitely something to be said for short, intense cycles… i think you will get shut down with 3 weeks or more, and if that is the case, you may as well do 6-8 weeks (10-12 is supposedly even more suppressive) - but B.R writes about his 2:4 cycles which are repeated back to back over the year, and produce the same gains. However:
4 x 2weeks on, 4weeks off = 15lbs gained over 24 weeks
1 x 8weeks on = 15lbs gained over 8 weeks.
So while the time on is the same, the gains are the same - the time it takes to gain is longer.
But for those who are not in a rush, or who are concerned about their HPA function - then this is a viable alternative it seems.[quote]
Experience is always interesting to listen to as well, if you’ve played with short oral aas cycles.
I suppose the same could apply to shorter lasting injectables, the difference here though is the cumulative build and taper on an injectable should be much smoother than an oral even then.[/quote]
Hope this helps?