T Nation

Short Cycles


#1

Hey All,
I'm researching short 3 week cycles.
My goals are mass.BTW, I won't be doing this for awhile-I can gain alot naturally still, but I like learning this stuff.

Here's what I have so far:

I was thinking about test prop 100/mg eod and 30mg/day dbol.
But, what difference will the dbol have,instead of the test prop all by itself?

Also, If I'm just looking for mass/strength, basically what the above cycle give you(I think),
Do I ever have to change steroids?
I understand that eventually you increase dosage, but do you have to say switch to tren ace for a while to keep making gains, or can I just stick to test prop/dianabol forever?

Thanks for you insight.


#2

Hey All,
I just realized that dianabol is liver toxic. Is on3/0ff 3-4 too much for dianabol?

BTW, I'm only interested in the short 3-4 week cycles, so that limits the gear I can use.

Maybe instead of test prop/dianabol every cycle,alternating between that and tren ace 150mg/eod, test prop 100mg/eod?

I have this whole idea of sticking with the cheap test/dianabol for as long as I can, but maybe that's not the way to go about it.I have no idea.
What do you guys think?


#3

Why only short cycles?

Test Prop and Tren Ace shots should be taken every day.

Try the following:
-Test Prop 100mg/day
-Tren Ace 75mg/day
-Dianabol 25mg/day spread out through out the day.

What about PCT for in between cycles? Nolva or Clomid will work.


#4

PCT is the latest fad.

Dont be so worried about your liver. Its a tough organ.

JM


#5

LOL. Sorry, I forgot to mention PCT. I considered it such a given, that I neglected to even mention it. I was planning on nolvadex.
Clomid sounds good to,all except for the pms symptoms, so I think I'll skip that,opting for nolvadex.

Are you serious about the liver being a tough organ,and not to worry about it?
I'm thinking sarcasm,but maybe not.....

I like the idea of short cycles because of easier hpta recovery,less complicated pct,probably easier to keep gains,etc

BTW,I didn't put it in my OP,I'm 27,just so no one thinks I could be 18,and opts not to answer.

And,are the effects better stacking tren/prop.dbol then just using prop/dbol, or just prop?

I ask this because if the gains are comparable,then prop and dbol are cheaper.

Is tren better for strength,mass then prop?


#6

Here is what I am going with
50ml of stanazolol a day. for 45 days.
vitamin B12 200ml a day.
What you think about this cutter cycle,your imput will be nice.


#7

i like shorties a lot.

lots of good combos out there.

prop/d-bol
prop/drol
prop/npp
prop/npp/d-bol
prop/var
prop/tren
prop/tren/d-bol
prop/mast

etc etc etc etc!!!!

prop and d-bol is a cheap and effective shorty. prop/tren/d-bol is probably the strongest combo out there when it comes to synergy IMHO.

if you're willing to spend a little more, add the tren. that being said, you'll do just fine on prop and d-bol.


#8

There was a thread about short cycles a while back that you might find interesting..

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=687003&pageNo=0#697250


#9

B12. 200 ml?? a day? If it's injectable an IV would probably be better :wink:

Claes


#10

Bro have u thought of trans creams at all? U could use Test, Deca, EQ and Tren in creams. U run them at 4 weeks.They do work great as well. Since this would be your first cycle why do u want to inject ed with prop and tren ace? Plus prop hurts like a mofo,ED injections will suck for your first run.

This would be a nice cycle for u to think about.

Trans Test
Trans EQ
Dbol

PCT w/IGF-1

Good Luck,
CARNIVORE


#11

Bro, stick with your original plan of prop and d-bol:

if 3 weeks is the length you want to run then follow something similar to this........

day 1&2: 200 mg prop
days 4-20: 100 mg prop EOD
days 1-25: 30 mg D-bol ED
PCT on day 26

the exact same protocol worked well for me.

BTW prop shots don't hurt....its more of a discomfort if anything at all. quality gear with a sane BA%, and proper inject techniques with some massaging solves the "pain" issue.


#12

juice20's dosage suggestion is solid. Prop will probably be the constant on all the shorties you do, and you can vary the 2nd compound (D-bol's great though).

Personally, I think shorties are the safest and the smartest way to use. They work well for many.


#13

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#14

i get discomfort in my quads after every shot, but i wouldn't call it pain...more of a stiffness. glutes are painless for me. delts seem to be hit or miss...usually zero pain/discomfort though.


#15

I just finished my first cycle (test only) which included prop every other day. The pain must vary alot between guys and brands but I found it to be not much of a problem. It certainly did not interfere with training. However, you must get comfortable with 3 different injection sites (ass, quad, shoulder) I started out doing just the glutes but they started to get a little worn out.

Anyways, you may want to rethink the 3 week thing. I kept very careful notes. After 1 week the only difference was huge pumps while training and about 5 pounds of body weight (no visible difference). By end of second week my strength was starting to increase well and added a couple more pounds of body weight. Between week 2 and 3 I started to see a significant visible difference.

I feel my gains leveled off after about 6-8 weeks I don't feel I saw any gains at all in the last 2 or 3 weeks. Overall I went from 225 to 242 in about 7 weeks while loseing some body fat. Strength gains were amazing. I am 41 with 20 years of very hard training so I was somewhat maxed out when I started. I am sure the orals will get you gains much faster than prop but I really don't think you'll get much out of prop if you limit it to 3 weeks.

I think a better idea might be prop and orals first 3 weeks then prop only last 3 weeks for a total cycle length of 6 weeks. I can't imagine you'll have much more trouble getting over a minor hpta suppression from 6 weeks on as compared to 3 weeks on. If you're really sold on 3 weeks I'd go oral only it will cost you less money, no injections, and it'll be out of your system so fast you should recover real quick. I also think you should go with more time between cycles. a few weeks of pct and a few weeks with nothing.