T Nation

Short Cycles


Hey All,
I'm researching short 3 week cycles.
My goals are mass.BTW, I won't be doing this for awhile-I can gain alot naturally still, but I like learning this stuff.

Here's what I have so far:

I was thinking about test prop 100/mg eod and 30mg/day dbol.
But, what difference will the dbol have,instead of the test prop all by itself?

Also, If I'm just looking for mass/strength, basically what the above cycle give you(I think),
Do I ever have to change steroids?
I understand that eventually you increase dosage, but do you have to say switch to tren ace for a while to keep making gains, or can I just stick to test prop/dianabol forever?

Thanks for you insight.


Hey All,
I just realized that dianabol is liver toxic. Is on3/0ff 3-4 too much for dianabol?

BTW, I'm only interested in the short 3-4 week cycles, so that limits the gear I can use.

Maybe instead of test prop/dianabol every cycle,alternating between that and tren ace 150mg/eod, test prop 100mg/eod?

I have this whole idea of sticking with the cheap test/dianabol for as long as I can, but maybe that's not the way to go about it.I have no idea.
What do you guys think?


Why only short cycles?

Test Prop and Tren Ace shots should be taken every day.

Try the following:
-Test Prop 100mg/day
-Tren Ace 75mg/day
-Dianabol 25mg/day spread out through out the day.

What about PCT for in between cycles? Nolva or Clomid will work.


PCT is the latest fad.

Dont be so worried about your liver. Its a tough organ.



LOL. Sorry, I forgot to mention PCT. I considered it such a given, that I neglected to even mention it. I was planning on nolvadex.
Clomid sounds good to,all except for the pms symptoms, so I think I'll skip that,opting for nolvadex.

Are you serious about the liver being a tough organ,and not to worry about it?
I'm thinking sarcasm,but maybe not.....

I like the idea of short cycles because of easier hpta recovery,less complicated pct,probably easier to keep gains,etc

BTW,I didn't put it in my OP,I'm 27,just so no one thinks I could be 18,and opts not to answer.

And,are the effects better stacking tren/prop.dbol then just using prop/dbol, or just prop?

I ask this because if the gains are comparable,then prop and dbol are cheaper.

Is tren better for strength,mass then prop?


Here is what I am going with
50ml of stanazolol a day. for 45 days.
vitamin B12 200ml a day.
What you think about this cutter cycle,your imput will be nice.


i like shorties a lot.

lots of good combos out there.


etc etc etc etc!!!!

prop and d-bol is a cheap and effective shorty. prop/tren/d-bol is probably the strongest combo out there when it comes to synergy IMHO.

if you're willing to spend a little more, add the tren. that being said, you'll do just fine on prop and d-bol.


There was a thread about short cycles a while back that you might find interesting..



B12. 200 ml?? a day? If it's injectable an IV would probably be better :wink:



Bro have u thought of trans creams at all? U could use Test, Deca, EQ and Tren in creams. U run them at 4 weeks.They do work great as well. Since this would be your first cycle why do u want to inject ed with prop and tren ace? Plus prop hurts like a mofo,ED injections will suck for your first run.

This would be a nice cycle for u to think about.

Trans Test
Trans EQ


Good Luck,


Bro, stick with your original plan of prop and d-bol:

if 3 weeks is the length you want to run then follow something similar to this........

day 1&2: 200 mg prop
days 4-20: 100 mg prop EOD
days 1-25: 30 mg D-bol ED
PCT on day 26

the exact same protocol worked well for me.

BTW prop shots don't hurt....its more of a discomfort if anything at all. quality gear with a sane BA%, and proper inject techniques with some massaging solves the "pain" issue.


juice20's dosage suggestion is solid. Prop will probably be the constant on all the shorties you do, and you can vary the 2nd compound (D-bol's great though).

Personally, I think shorties are the safest and the smartest way to use. They work well for many.


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i get discomfort in my quads after every shot, but i wouldn't call it pain...more of a stiffness. glutes are painless for me. delts seem to be hit or miss...usually zero pain/discomfort though.


I just finished my first cycle (test only) which included prop every other day. The pain must vary alot between guys and brands but I found it to be not much of a problem. It certainly did not interfere with training. However, you must get comfortable with 3 different injection sites (ass, quad, shoulder) I started out doing just the glutes but they started to get a little worn out.

Anyways, you may want to rethink the 3 week thing. I kept very careful notes. After 1 week the only difference was huge pumps while training and about 5 pounds of body weight (no visible difference). By end of second week my strength was starting to increase well and added a couple more pounds of body weight. Between week 2 and 3 I started to see a significant visible difference.

I feel my gains leveled off after about 6-8 weeks I don't feel I saw any gains at all in the last 2 or 3 weeks. Overall I went from 225 to 242 in about 7 weeks while loseing some body fat. Strength gains were amazing. I am 41 with 20 years of very hard training so I was somewhat maxed out when I started. I am sure the orals will get you gains much faster than prop but I really don't think you'll get much out of prop if you limit it to 3 weeks.

I think a better idea might be prop and orals first 3 weeks then prop only last 3 weeks for a total cycle length of 6 weeks. I can't imagine you'll have much more trouble getting over a minor hpta suppression from 6 weeks on as compared to 3 weeks on. If you're really sold on 3 weeks I'd go oral only it will cost you less money, no injections, and it'll be out of your system so fast you should recover real quick. I also think you should go with more time between cycles. a few weeks of pct and a few weeks with nothing.