T Nation

Short Cycles

Alright bros, I have a couple of years of AAS use under my belt (5 cycles), and all my cycles have been the traditional 10-12 weeker followed up by AT LEAST equal time off. I’m now contemplating a 3on3off cycle regimen for several reasons. #1 is that suppression of the hpta occurs after week 3 in MOST cases. #2 is that by not suppressing endogenous t levels to any appreciable degree, recovery will be SUPER QUICK! #3 is that I feel I’ll have more success if I dedicate all of my energy into hardcore workouts for those 3 weeks while on and then back off some for the 3 weeks that I’m off.#4 is that I prefer fast acting esters like propionate over the longer esters like cypionate. So here’s what I have planned. LMK what you guys think.
weeks 1-3:200mg test propionate eod. 25mg dianabol ed. 25mg anavar ed. 20mg nolvadex ed. 1.25mg letrozole eod (kind of susceptible to gyno)
weeks 4-6:100mg clomid ed (just to be safe)
Then I’ll repeat but may switch things up a bit depending on the success of 1st one.
I may even hit up some HCG on the weekends during the time I’m on.

MK

I like the sound of short cycles, but they don’t seem to get much kudos on this post. Just wondering if they’re any good for adding lean mass without the sides and holding it?

i use short cycles, 15-16 days and i have had good results, i am just finishing days 13-16 of 400mg a week test prop with arimidex in it. right now i am up about 5lbs of muscle and have lost a little fat.

mike, perhaps you should check out the brain batcheldor articles in the archieves. he talks about using short cycles like you are thinking about. he has definately influenced the way i design cycles as he considers the whole picture. i have yet to experience any sides and i think my recovery next week will be fast, i will let you know if you want as i am getting blood work every 2 or 3 days when i finish to see how the recovery goes. as for the prop, i feel the best way is to inject the first week’s worth on day one to ‘load’ and then take shots every two days to make up whatever is released in those 2 days.

definately use the letrozole and for shorter cycles, i just start clomid on day one and skip the nolva. if you want to use HCG, then smaller, frequent injects are better. usually 250 ED or EOD or 500 EOD.

Maybe on the second go round of your 3on 3 off you could add in 75mg tren eod with your test and take out the dbol and get a little leaned out. Than maybe another time switch up just the orals and put in some winny.
I guess I just really don’t like the bloated look that dbol or anandrol gives. I prefer the fat burning effects of tren and winny.
But good luck with the diffrent style and keep us informed as to how it compares with how you usually do it.

I was thinking the same thing, doing three on three off with 75mg of tren/winny. You think adding anavar would be a good choice then??

[quote]Darkangel wrote:
Maybe on the second go round of your 3on 3 off you could add in 75mg tren eod [/quote]

he was looking to prevent shutdown as much as possible. so tren is not the best option in this case. also i think that he doesn’t want to use winny, was it joint issues mike? he actually has his stuff together very well for what he is looking for. there will not be that much shutdown of natural production (ok it will slow, but will recover quick as long as an antiestrogen is used like letrozole or arimidex since there is no estrogen feedback inhibition of the HPTA. it takes about 2-3 weeks with lower doses before the HPTA really starts to respond to AR mediated shutdown). also using clomid and HCG in small amounts will help greatly. other options in this case are boldenone, methenolone, and test, all with short esters, can get bold and methenolone acetate, some can get propionate esters too. as for orals, anavar and to a lesser extent the dbol. as for doses, 400mg of test prop and 400mg of boldanone or methenolone propionate or acetate per week with 50mg of anavar or dbol/day, anti-e, estrogen agonist, possibly HCG. ZMA would help too.

“he actually has his stuff together very well for what he is looking for.”

Thanks bro…But do you think it’s really NECESSARY to frontload a fast-acting ester like propionate? I may end up shooting 300mg propionate on day 1, and then 150mg days 3,5,7,etc. all the way up to day 19, and start pct on day 22. So essentially I’d be running 525mg test propionate/wk. Stacked w/ the dbol and var, this should make for a pretty good short cycle. BTW, I’ve never used letrozole before, but am going to opt for it over the arimidex due to the negative effects that ari. has on lipid profiles…So would you say that 2.5mg letrozole is equivalent to 1mg arimidex?

thanks,
MK

so you are saying the original three weeks he posted will have no where near as much shut down as replacing one or both the orals with tren. Come on 3 weeks is when major shut down starts with most cycles in general, unless it is something super small like a low dosage primo stand alone cycle, shut down should not be that much greater as long as he runs it 3 weeks or less. Besides as soon as you put any workable amout of androgens into your body you will start to have a little bit of shut down.
I understand that he wants as little as possible hence keeping the length to 3weeks or less.
I don’t mean to steal the thread but I will be starting a similar cycle in 2-3weeks with Tren and winstrol. Going 2-3 on 2-3 off and then switching to MAG-10 for 2 on 2 off then maybe back to the tren winstrol.
Thanks for hearing me out and letting me rant and bable.Maybe we will all have fun learning how these short cycles effect us individually.DA

[quote]mikekatz wrote:
…But do you think it’s really NECESSARY to frontload a fast-acting ester like propionate?..So would you say that 2.5mg letrozole is equivalent to 1mg arimidex?

thanks,
MK
[/quote]

no you don’t have to front load, but if you do the advantages are stable levels throughout as well as being fully ‘on’ right from day one. to do so properly, you would inject in the morning an amount of propionate for one week, half will release roughly by day 3.5 when you shoot half that amount to top off (inject at night and cycle injects 3.5 days unless you opt to do ED or EOD) i find that this works well to keep levels stable. when volume gets to be a problem, for example i cannot do more than 1ml per shot as when i did 2 it got sore the next day and was tender for a couple of days, then i just do multiple injects and space them carefully into my upper and outer buttocks. this really helps a lot. i am thinking of trying 0.5 ml next time (i use 25g by the way). this isn’t necessary, just an option. as for the letrozole, apparently 0.1mg works as well as 2.5mg, but i think you may have mentioned gyno issues, so if it is not a problem to get, then it is safe to use up to 2.5mg per day to be sure.

as for shutdown issues, i think that tren with its progesterone binding can cause problems especially with someone who is sensitive to gyno and it is one of the most suppressive steroids. and i agree that dbol will have quite a bit of shutdown, i would use something like test prop at 400mg with 1 mg of letrozole per ml and 60mg of methenolone acetate ED injected along with 50mg of anavar. that is 1170mg a week, quite a heavy cycle, but let me point out that there will be shutdown, just it will be at lower levels and natural production will return quite fast as long as an anti estrogen like arimidex or letrozole preferrably is used. this is because even though LH secretion goes down in response to the androgens, it is ER mediated shutdown that results in harsh suppression and without estrogen in the system because of the letrozole use, LH levels recover quite quickly especially if clomid and prehaps small doses of HCG are used. also supps like zma throughout and after, Alpha Male, M, HOT-ROX will help retain gains.

i would like to point out that if one begins a cycle with a sub-optimal endocrine profile, then recovery of the HPTA will be much longer. it is important to ensure optimal natural levels before you start and one way to do this is to use the post cycle supps except for HCG.

DA, i hope it was DA, anyway, post away your own opinions to your hearts content, i don’t believe there is any one right answer, or at least not one that humans can ever figure out.

I second what morbo said - about using letrozole - you don’t want any estrogen as it has much longer staying power in the body than AAS.

Secondly there is absolutely no need for HCG usage on this cycle. - you said it yourself - 3 weeks is not long enough to cause testicular suppression, so therefore no need for that.

I would personally stay away from tren as it does seem to be harder to bounce back from.

Doubling your dose of prop for the first few days will help get things releasing quicker.

Let us know how you do.

Your probably right in respect to the HCG that I had outlined…However, I may choose to shoot 500i.u. on days 19,20,21 just to ease the transition to post cycle. Thx again to the bros who responded.

MK

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
I second what morbo said - about using letrozole - you don’t want any estrogen as it has much longer staying power in the body than AAS.

Secondly there is absolutely no need for HCG usage on this cycle. - you said it yourself - 3 weeks is not long enough to cause testicular suppression, so therefore no need for that.

I would personally stay away from tren as it does seem to be harder to bounce back from.

Doubling your dose of prop for the first few days will help get things releasing quicker.

Let us know how you do.[/quote]