T Nation

Short Cycle Results

Hey,

I was just curious to see what other people have gained on short cycles. Specifially ones similar to Bill Roberts 2on, 4 off article he made. I tried searching but didn’t find anything really, except that there were a lot of people interested in trying a cycle like this.

I have done a few over the past year. I did two 4 weekers in a row with 4 weeks in between. Both were very low dose. First one was with sustanon and equipoise at 200 mg and 150 mg /week.

I had a custom blend I made. The second one I took 150 mg/w sustanon and 20 mg/d Winstrol. The fiest one I gained 8 lbs. I lost 2 lbs in the interim and on the second one I gained 10 lbs.

On the second one the gains came very fast, in less than 2 weeks. I took 3 months off and dieted down but maintained most of my strength. After the break I did a 4 weeker of Test E at 375 mg/w and masteron at 350 mg/w. I got a little out of control with my diet since my appetite went out of control.

I put on 15 lbs. I felt overdosed. I compounded my own sterloid powders and make them to specks. Test E at 250 mg/ml and Masteron propionate at 100mg/ml. By the third week I was getting gyno and had to add letrozol. By the end of the third week I had painful pumps and very oily skin. I got very strong though.

I have been off for 5 weeks and am about to do my next 4 weeker. I have dropped 5 lbs of the 15. I am up a total of 11 lbs from the start of the whole short cycle eperiment and that is off weight to off weight comparison. My next one will hopefully be a recomposition.

I’m 5’9" at 212 right now and about 13% BF. I am aiming to drop about 4 % BF and hold most of my mass at this point. I’m going to use Equipoise but may decide to add masteron and a low dose of test. I seem to be very sensitive to AAS though so dosages will remain fairly low.

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
I have done a few over the past year. I did two 4 weekers in a row with 4 weeks in between. Both were very low dose. First one was with sustanon and equipoise at 200 mg and 150 mg /week.

I had a custom blend I made. The second one I took 150 mg/w sustanon and 20 mg/d Winstrol. The fiest one I gained 8 lbs. I lost 2 lbs in the interim and on the second one I gained 10 lbs.

On the second one the gains came very fast, in less than 2 weeks. I took 3 months off and dieted down but maintained most of my strength. After the break I did a 4 weeker of Test E at 375 mg/w and masteron at 350 mg/w.

I got a little out of control with my diet since my appetite went out of control. I put on 15 lbs. I felt overdosed. I compounded my own sterloid powders and make them to specks. Test E at 250 mg/ml and Masteron propionate at 100mg/ml.

By the third week I was getting gyno and had to add letrozol. By the end of the third week I had painful pumps and very oily skin. I got very strong though. I have been off for 5 weeks and am about to do my next 4 weeker. I have dropped 5 lbs of the 15.

I am up a total of 11 lbs from the start of the whole short cycle eperiment and that is off weight to off weight comparison. My next one will hopefully be a recomposition.

I’m 5’9" at 212 right now and about 13% BF. I am aiming to drop about 4 % BF and hold most of my mass at this point. I’m going to use Equipoise but may decide to add masteron and a low dose of test. I seem to be very sensitive to AAS though so dosages will remain fairly low.[/quote]

Why are you using those long esters for such short cycles?

Because I am not a sheeple.

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
Because I am not a sheeple.[/quote]

There are a lot of sheeple. Those that only research at only one or two sites or use one or two forums - are most vulnerable to the epidemic, which at certain places (bb.com) can be a plague.

I know I feel victim of the disease myself for a few years by mainly researching and using these forums and this site.

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
Because I am not a sheeple.[/quote]

OK, but I was kind of hoping for more of an answer than that…

Let me ask this: do you feel your endo test production recovered in between cycles?

Geeze looks like you stumped me ‘Whoa!’ an ‘Mac_06’ sorry, I can’t answer that question, we haven’t ever really discussed short cycles here ‘Whoa!’ giggles and ‘Mac_06’… defenatly a ground breaking idea… You guys could be the modern day Bill R.

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[quote]Whoa! wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
Because I am not a sheeple.

OK, but I was kind of hoping for more of an answer than that…

Let me ask this: do you feel your endo test production recovered in between cycles?[/quote]

Yes it did. Now it’s time you ask me for a FedEX of my lab results right kid?

Seriously, what is all this sarcasm for?

It just caught me off guard when I saw things like EQ, test E and other long-acting drugs being used in a 4-on, 4-off protocol. I don’t claim to be a scientist, but from what I think I know, that just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

You referred to it as an experiment, so maybe you were just trying something new? What was your hypothesis? Maybe you liked it, maybe you didn’t? Maybe it didn’t work very well? I’m just curious.

I don’t want to be a sheeple, so if conventional wisdom is wrong, then by all means please enlighten me. Just save the sarcasm please because I’m not the type to get into that sort of pissing contest.

What is a sheeple? i dont want to be one until i know what it is… ans seeing as noone want to be one, i will be different and say i DO want to be one!

Is is a sheep who follows others blindly? Dont you mean SHEEPIE?! LOL! There are a million of those in the Bodybuilding Forum.

If NOT being a sheepie(!) also means that you dont follow conventional wisdom, and end up making stupid fucking mistakes such as taking time off during the 4 week half life drug, so you actually never get any recovery at all and the sex drive you are experiencing is provided by the exogenous test in your blood stll… then count me out.

JJ

[quote] JJ wrote:
What is a sheeple? i dont want to be one until i know what it is… ans seeing as noone want to be one, i will be different and say i DO want to be one!

Is is a sheep who follows others blindly? Dont you mean SHEEPIE?! LOL! There are a million of those in the Bodybuilding Forum.

If NOT being a sheepie(!) also means that you dont follow conventional wisdom, and end up making stupid fucking mistakes such as taking time off during the 4 week half life drug, so you actually never get any recovery at all and the sex drive you are experiencing is provided by the exogenous test in your blood stll… then count me out.

JJ[/quote]

Good stuff JJ. Funny.

Sheeple = sheep people.

[quote]Whoa! wrote:
Seriously, what is all this sarcasm for?

It just caught me off guard when I saw things like EQ, test E and other long-acting drugs being used in a 4-on, 4-off protocol. I don’t claim to be a scientist, but from what I think I know, that just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

You referred to it as an experiment, so maybe you were just trying something new? What was your hypothesis? Maybe you liked it, maybe you didn’t? Maybe it didn’t work very well? I’m just curious.

I don’t want to be a sheeple, so if conventional wisdom is wrong, then by all means please enlighten me. Just save the sarcasm please because I’m not the type to get into that sort of pissing contest.[/quote]

Whoa! my posted wasn’t necessary directed toward you, more for the OP. But I can understand pickapeck’s response to you because the way you worded your post, but your latest is worded better :D… 4 on 4 off is kinda tricky, not ideal 8 weeks min IMO with any drug other than orals.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Have done 2 on, 2 off, 2 on, off with anadrol at 100-150mg ED and winstrol at 50mg ed.

hardly any noticable sides, busted through some strength plateus and KEPT gaining a little even during the two off-weeks.

gained three kg bodyweight total, but then I didn’t eat like a monster, just a little bit more than usual. NO visible bloat at all. Strength is still up.

Love anadrol! :slight_smile:

Doesn’t make sense to me. Then again, I use mostly Test E. Kinda like makin out with a girl, and then having her leave before you get some. You get all worked up, and nothing happens. LOL.

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
Because I am not a sheeple.[/quote]

Classic.

Short cycles with long esters yield the same results as short cycles with short esters. Yes, it takes longer to “kick in” but it also takes longer to “kick out” at the end thus making the two protocols equal.

Actually, I hate the phrase “kick in” as it’s not a true representation of the pharmacodynamics of the drug. Test cyp/enan starts working the first day albeit less so than test prop/susp.

You don’t go from nil gains to magically great gains at week 3/4 when using a longer estered androgen. The gains before are just more subtle.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

If you notice I use fairly low doses. I ran the numbers on publicly available spread sheets then checked them with my own based on 1st order rate kinetics and known 1/2 lives. I’m sure most of you guys are familiar with the publicly available ones. If you consider the dosages I was doing and the known 1/2 lives you will see that I am in the normal androgen blood level range within 17 days on the longest ester sets. While my scheme does not fit well with the accepted group mentality I did put a fair amount of thought into my recent cycling habits. I do realize that the generally accepted protocol is to use fairly high doses of short esters and orals. The idea is a burst of anabolism with rapid clearance to be followed by a brief PCT. My protocols are a bit different I admit, and are designed to do something different. I am older and not interested in high dose cycles of any length. I am interested in keeping doses low and making mild gains with minimal toxicity. I have blood work done twice a year and my values are good.

It’s actually quite amazing how quickly thoughts outside the box are attacked. I am certain that none of you will see the logic I have seen with my current regimen. That really does not matter because it seems to be working to my satisfaction. I am experiencing moderate gains as expected and my recovery between minicycles appears to be adequate. Additionally, I am subjecting my body to only mild doses of these compounds.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Dopamineloveaffa wrote:
Short cycles with long esters yield the same results as short cycles with short esters. Yes, it takes longer to “kick in” but it also takes longer to “kick out” at the end thus making the two protocols equal.

Actually, I hate the phrase “kick in” as it’s not a true representation of the pharmacodynamics of the drug. Test cyp/enan starts working the first day albeit less so than test prop/susp.

You don’t go from nil gains to magically great gains at week 3/4 when using a longer estered androgen. The gains before are just more subtle.

Completely disagree.

The whole concept behind short cycles, is to only have androgens in your system for 2 weeks, 3 weeks max.

Any longer than this, and you suppress the HPTA. Which defeats the whole purpose behind short cycles.

The shape of the curve representing blood levels of hormone, when looking at long estered gear, is a lot more ‘blunt’ leaving a protracted timescale when you are ‘under the influence’ of the hormone, and thus suppressing your HPTA.

Conversely, a short ester provides a much more ‘peaky’ release of hormone, making it suitable for short cycles, because there is no hormone ‘hangover’.

I suggest that both yourself and Pickapeck have missed the entire point behind short cycles.

Please explain to me the advantage of running a 4 week cycle. Explain how the possible advantages outweight the disadvantages, and perhaps you can convince us that you are not playing with concepts you don’t understand.

Bushy[/quote]

Your ego is immense.