T Nation

Short Cycle - 3 Weeks - Advice Appreciated

Hi,

this is my second cycle, my first was 12 wks on Sust. Circumstances dictate that it has to be a short one - I work at sea, can’t take gear with me and am never home long enough to get through even a 6-8 wk cycle. I’d love to do a proper cycle but it isn’t feasible in the next few years so this is where I’m at. Access to gear during this time isn’t an issue.

The cycle I planned looks like this:

Week 1-2

50 mg D-rol ED x 3
20 mg Winny ED x 3
100 mg Test Prop EOD
1 mg Arimidex EOD

I’ll definitely stop the orals in week 3 but I have enough prop (and Arimidex) to keep that going for a third week if I want to. I’ve got plenty of Nolvadex for PCT but I’m not 100% certain of dose/duration coming off such a short cycle.

I was initially going to stick with orals only having ruled out a prop based short cycle as I was worried about being unable to train. With only 3 weeks to play with, any day lost is going to be a big blow, and I don’t hear from many guys who say they don’t get pain from shooting prop.

At the same time, I hear from everyone that oral only cycles suck period so I’m hoping that I won’t have any major issues shooting 100 mg EOD.

I should also throw in, my expectations are pretty modest. I’m looking to maybe lean out a little and gain a few lbs at most - I’ve basically been plateauing around 175 lbs for a few months now and I’d like to break 180 lbs without looking like crap.

My questions, in short, are:

What dose/duration should I run the Nolvadex for?
Am I likely to get any benefit at all from running 100 mg prop EOD or should I just stick to the orals and accept that it’s a crap cycle but the best I’ve got to work with?

Would really appreciate some help with this - the days are counting and I’d like to get started tomorrow.

Sorry, should have included:

Age: 33
Height: 5’7
Training: 5 years

I’m not a body builder. I do MMA and weight train for that. Never looked at AAS until around a year ago after I got a stomach infection (middle-eastern street food…) and then developed further complications. My weight dropped from 189 lbs to 138 lbs and I’ve been trying to get back to somewhere close to where I was ever since. I did my first cycle while off work in recovery and it went great. I got up to around 170 lbs lean. Unfortunately I can’t do the same this time around. As I said, my goals are pretty modest. If I can hold onto 3-5 lbs I’ll be happy.

Diet is as clean as it gets. I’m intolerant to basically anything that tastes good…

Even for 3 weekers, you could use Test Enanthate, say at 500mn for week 1, 250 for week 2 (shooting at the every beginning of week 2), and let the natural taper do it’s thing after that. Just to have that “test base”. It’s better with Prop, but yeah, pain can slow training. Some people say they can’t feel Test E for a couple of weeks but I can in a day or two.

Anyway the orals and fast action stuff - like Tren A that isn’t painful - will be the main engines here in any case.

Back when the 2 weekers were more popular years ago, the reason was that supposedly after 2 weeks you get shut off, so it was thought that you either go 2 weeks or long, as in between is no good. But that was years ago. I’m sure getting to normal from a 3 weeker is easier than from a 12 week cycle!

Thanks for the tip SwD. I already had the prop so I decided to give it a go and I’ll post a few ‘non-scientific’ observations here for anyone (particular newbs such as myself) considering a similar short cycle.

I’m only shooting 100 mg prop EOD so the pain isn’t nearly as bad as I’d prepared myself for. Sure, I can feel it but it’s not enough to stop me training or even wrestling. It’s tender to the touch on the quads but I can barely feel it in the glutes. I don’t mind injecting but EOD is just a pain in the ass (no pun intended) so I might consider the test E next time around.

The pumps on the Adrol are vicious and there’s the irony - the only thing I thought might hold me back was the prop but the pumps and tightness in the biceps from the adrol is unbelievable - back looks like a cartoon characters but not really an issue. A lot of guys report pain in the upper bicep/front delt - not me. It’s all in the lower bicep and it sets in quickly as soon as I start training. It was so bad I tapered down to 100 mg and now to 50 mg and I’m considering dropping the Adrol altogether. On the flip side, the strength gains are insane and the pumps are nice to look at but what’s the point if you can’t get through a training session?

Water retention hasn’t been too bad at all. It mostly went on around my gut/hips so my lower abs stopped pushing through at the bottom but I don’t look fat. Whether that’s because of the Adex, high water intake (I wrestle twice a day and probably take in 3L during that time alone) I can’t say.

What really freaked me out was gyno onset on day 2, and I’m not just being paranoid. It was really pronounced in my left tit with all the tell tales. I started 20mg Nolv ED immediately and that’s settled it a little but I wasn’t prepared for it to set in so quickly. I did 12 wks of sust with no AI and had absolutely no signs of gyno on my first cycle so I figured I was pretty safe.

I trained again this morning and the tightness is still there. I managed to get through the session but it’s still not pleasant. On the bright side, it subsides after 1-2 hours and I’m good to go again. In fact recovery has been awesome overall. I can leave a session feeling broken and feel completely recovered 2-3 hours later.

Most disappointing is the general feeling of lethargy. I felt super charged on my first cycle, always ready to train. I have to psyche myself up a bit now and mornings aren’t that fun. By evening I’m a beast though.

I have a lot of dbol and I’m wondering if it’s ok to switch from the Adrol to the Dbol half way through a short cycle like this? I could really do without the tightness and the shakes that set in from the Adrol.

Should also mention, have put on 9 lbs in 5 days. Some undoubtedly water but I don’t think that can account for 9 lbs since I don’t look particularly bloated and I’ve still got good vascularity in my arms and shoulders. I guess the real test is going to be when the water drops off and I see if I’ve managed to keep some of that weight. Volume on all lifts is up (all compounds).

Too Kitchen sink.I appreciate your enthusiasm,and desire to improve.I took oral’s back in the day,the 1985 ,or so.Dianabol by Ciba pharmaveutical’s at 5mg’s and winstrol at 2mg’s.This is just a thought.People got good gain’s on 15-30mg’s a day,but nowaday’s these underground lab’s produce d-bol @25 and 50mg’s a tab.Have you ever tried a low,or lower dose?. The reason is anadrol-50 is really not good for the liver.The oral’s are pretty well not the drug of choice for people that want to live a life void of high liver emzymes and water retention similar to the michlin man.As for your job on the sea,can you follow a high-protein diet onboard a ship? all the best john

Johnny k53, thanks for your advice. It’s good to hear from someone with so many years of experience behind them. Unfortunately the tabs were only available in 50 mg. I’m not ignorant to potential liver damage but understood risks would be vlow on such a short cycle - liver damage to the best of my (limited) knowledge becomes a factor after long term use of orals i.e. using throughout long cycles. Please correct me if I’m wrong on that since that’s obviously something that should be clearly understood.

As for your question about high protein diet, that’s no problem. I can have steak on demand - I just need to ask chef nicely. My problem is I’m very limited in food choices due to the medical issues I mentioned earlier, so my diet is very very clean and I have to eat pretty small portions. You might say, hell, that’s what we all strive for but I find it very difficult to put on weight eating this clean and it’s a challenge just getting enough calories - I have to be quite strict with meal times and even wake up to eat at times. That’s why my goals are pretty modest but having them helps me stay focused on training and not just give up.

I’ve decided to stop the Adrol at the end of week 1 (tomorrow) having only taken 50 mg ED since yesterday. Two reasons: the pumps and muscle tightness make it impossible to train for longer than 15-20 minutes; I feel like crap.

I’ll continue with the prop and winny to the end of week 2. So far as I can tell I have 3 options:

  1. Continue with current dosages on prop and winny (add nothing)
  2. Up dosage of prop
  3. Continue with current dosages on prop and winny and change out Adrol for Dbol (lower dosage) or something else.

Like I said previously, access to pretty much anything I want isn’t an issue right now so I could add other things but I did homework on the compounds listed above before committing to the cycle. I haven’t read much about tren, for example, so whether or not it’s worthwhile adding another compound in week 2 of a 2-3 week cycle I don’t know and I’d have to have it spelled out for me by someone who knows their stuff before considering throwing it into the mix.

Thanks to you guys who’ve taken time out to reply to my post. I really appreciate it.

Thought I’d post a few more short observations here on day 6.

After only a day off of the Adrol (having tapered down in the previous 3 days) my mood and motivation to train have lifted significantly. I trained twice today and swam for 30 minutes and I could go again now. The pain/tightness from the pumps wasn’t really noticeable.

I have 4 more shots of prop to do to complete the cycle and I plan to shoot all into the glutes since I can barely feel any pain there afterwards. I’m also pretty accustomed to shooting there (have plenty of experience with shots out with AAS for other medical treatment).

Water retention is also subsiding noticeably but I’ve added another 2 lbs so I’ll take that as positive. The gyno indicators (lumps, sharp pains, puffy nipple) are gone so that’s a big relief but will keep running the nolv.

I doubt I’ll run Adrol again. Obviously people react in different ways and I’m one of those people it doesn’t agree with i.e. get anxious, tightness, shakes, low mood. Like I said above, I’m accustomed to shooting and getting shot and I’ve always been very comfortable with needles but for the first time in my life I felt anxious before injecting and had to psyche myself up to get the job done.

With all of the above in mind and looking forward to my next (short) cycle, it’s most likely I’ll stick with the prop and winny and maybe add in Dbol. I’m quite happy to make small and consistent gains and I’ll take my experience with Adrol as exactly that…