There is a good book called, “Ideas have Consequences” by Richard Weaver that kind of came to mind while reading the discussion. I recommend it considering the booklist above(not as a “worst book” but one we should read).
Just a side note for us all: Our worldview and that of Muslims are worlds apart. That may seem obvious, but the reasons why they do what they do are foreign
(i.e. washing of the hands and such before reading the Qur’an) to us and may seem nonsensical, stupid and wrong (I am not saying they are right either). The value that we place on individuality and self in this country is sinful in their eyes.
We may not care what they think, but these (ours and theirs) systems of thought evoke highly emotional triggers (pun sort of intended) because we feel that what we value and hold near to our hearts is being obliterated. If we wish to engage opposition efficiently and effectively, taking time to understand and ask “why?” before making a judgment call is good methodology. Lest we accuse others or become “stupid” ourselves.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Phate89 wrote:
If you want to burn their holy books and offend them, don’t be suprised when they behead and kill your soldiers.
Book burning is a reason to murder someone? [/quote]
[quote]pat wrote:
We will not be at all surprised at the violence this story generates. It’s the muslim mantra: “If you offend us, we’re going to kill lots of people, stamp our feet and whine.”[/quote]
I guess you missed the part where the US commander apologized, and then everyone was cool.
Actually we shouldn’t be surpised when they kill our soldiers regardless if one shoots books maims or otherwise their holybook. They’ve hated America for a long time, they believe we are a Christian nation (overall I’d say we are not), and they look at our lifestyle and are filled with hate. Granted I am speaking about orthodox muslims.
Many muslims living in the States are “moderates”. These moderates are also the ones that are showcased in t.v. specials and media. However, there are significant problems with the text of the Qur’an where the moderate muslim must allegorize the passages that state to overtake and kill unbelievers, Christians and Jews. Orthodox muslims take these passages literally.
Groups like the al’ Qaida interpret them to their literal limit. Most of the world is orthodox in nature. Moderates are the small minority. If any are interested I can provide references.
That being said, with regard to shooting up the Qur’an and writing obcene gestures in it, inside their own country, was probably not a wise decision. Might have felt good at the time…
(understand trying to be a soldier helping those who hate {generally speaking} you though you intend to help, that is tough stuff. Not to mention the political baggage that may restrict the men on the ground from doing their jobs better or how they need/want to. That’d drive me personally to insanity. I personally love them for their willing sacrifices)
…but that may cause problems for other troops and leaders in the field as it adds fuel to a flame that is already hot. Here in the states who cares, it is not the same. We have things like freedom of religion and speech and a right to bear arms (laws) to protect us if we want to use a muslim holybook for target practice. Believe it or not, this issue is deeper and more complex than what surfaces in the media as well.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
pat wrote:
We will not be at all surprised at the violence this story generates. It’s the muslim mantra: “If you offend us, we’re going to kill lots of people, stamp our feet and whine.”
I guess you missed the part where the US commander apologized, and then everyone was cool.[/quote]
Not so fast, cowboy.
The leading Sunni in the Iraqi government had this to say: “the feelings of bitterness and anger cannot be eased unless there is a deterrent punishment”. The Iraqi Association of Muslim Scholars issued the following statement: “This heinous crime shows the hatred that the leaders and the members of the occupying force have against the Quran and the [Muslim] people”. The blame is overwhelmingly laid on the American government for this action from every single side of the Iraqi population.
That’s for Iraq.
Elsewhere, the story didn’t really come as much of a surprise - at least, judging by the reaction of my family, friends and the blogosphere. Business as usual. There is a sentiment that a tiny fraction of these stories are uncovered, and that the large majority of abuse, rapes and murders pass below the radar.
It’s nice that a senior military officer apologized for this since it shows good faith and could curb retaliation attempts. But it’s too little, too late. What is needed is an apology emanating from the White House about the invasion as a whole and an swift withdrawal of all foreign military personnel from Iraq. Only then can there be a beginning of forgiveness.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
pat wrote:
We will not be at all surprised at the violence this story generates. It’s the muslim mantra: “If you offend us, we’re going to kill lots of people, stamp our feet and whine.”
I guess you missed the part where the US commander apologized, and then everyone was cool.[/quote]
There will be retribution and people will die because of this. Just wait. I don’t support what this soldier did, I have no interest in hurting the feelings of those who are truly loyal to the Almighty, but the common freak will see it as an excuse to do violence and kill. The soldier should have known better, or at least, if nothing else, been more discrete. We will pay the price for his mistake and the price will be high. I do not support the notion that if you are offended you must kill. However, there are many muslims who feel that an offense against islam is worthy of the death penalty.
Yes, I would be offended if somebody shot up a Bible, but I would not hurt a fly over the offense. In case you were wondering.
[quote]lixy wrote:
What is needed is an apology emanating from the White House about the invasion as a whole and an swift withdrawal of all foreign military personnel from Iraq. Only then can there be a beginning of forgiveness.[/quote]
Maybe we could dig up Saddam’s corpse, stuff him and put him back in power.
The leading Sunni in the Iraqi government had this to say: “the feelings of bitterness and anger cannot be eased unless there is a deterrent punishment”.
The Iraqi Association of Muslim Scholars issued the following statement: “This heinous crime shows the hatred that the leaders and the members of the occupying force have against the Quran and the [Muslim] people”. The blame is overwhelmingly laid on the American government for this action from every single side of the Iraqi population.
Pretty heavy response for the actions of one idiot.
Of course it would be “unfair” for non-Muslims to react to Muslim behavior in the same way, right? [/quote]
Said idiot was in Iraq because the American government put him there. His bullets were paid by US tax money.
If you can’t see the difference, there’s no helping you.
So we fall all over ourselves to appease Muslim sensibilities, pouring our blood and treasure into the various tribes of that retrograde “civilization,” we have Bush up at the podium proclaiming Islam to be a “religion of peace” to anyone who still listens to him, but we’re secretly running a campaign of rape, murder and torture.
With journalists everywhere salivating to announce the latest soldier “atrocity,” you’d think we’d be hearing more about this campaign of ours.
Yep, that type of paranoia about sums up why Muslim countries are so backward.