it’s just another indicator of the level of 205ers in Pride versus the UFC.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t Chuck have four knockouts against Tito Ortiz and Renato Sobral? I’m pretty sure that those two guys put a beating on Wandy & Shogun respectively. I’m no fan of MMA math, but it’s hard to believe in the vast superiority of Pride 205ers when their two best fighters got tooled by a couple of Chuck’s victims.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Pride does have the better fighters, but the difference is nowhere near the monumental chasm that some folks seem to believe it is.
The UFC’s 205 division is simply undervalued because we have seen them all get demolished by Chuck, whereas the Pride guys have all avoided getting wrecked. When a top Pride 205er has lost, it has almost always been to a decision rather than a brutal stoppage (the lone exception being Arona’s defeats at the hands of Shogun & Rampage).[/quote]
Tito hasn’t had a reputation since 1999. He hasn’t beaten anyone of you can call today great, except Silva, and that was a long time ago.
I do not think the UFC’s LHW division has been undervalued. It is what it is. Chuck and two very good grapplers(Ortiz and Sobral) who do not have the style to beat Chuck(prior to Rampage joining).
Silva has had a tough time against big strong wrestlers, Ortiz and Arona. Sometimes regardless how good fighters are they sometimes run into bad match-ups.
Also when Sobral beat Shogun, Shogun was extremely young and had yet to accomplish much in his career.
I do think Shogun needs to improve his stand-up. Silva too. Though those two still are better on their feet than both Ortiz and Sobral.
If this was boxing I might be inclined to accept the who beat who argument, since in boxing there are less variables to deal with. MMA has shown you can’t really prove much that way though.
Pride has problems with teammates not facing each other and non-title fights.
I agree that the gap between the two isn’t large at LHW. Pride has a slight edge in depth, that’s it.
As for Overeem, he must be the most talented unsuccessful guy in a major org. On paper I think he is more skilled and talented than: Liddell, Jardine, Forrest and Lil Nog. Though that hassn’t translated into success. Wait maybe Aleks(Fedor’s brother) can qualify for this title now.