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Shocked: Gyno Debate With Prof

So tonight in my human sexuality class, I had a little debate with the professor. We were discussing genetic problems from birth…and we talked about a specific disorder in which a male has XXY instead of just XY. This creates secondary female characteristics particularly at puberty. This of course go into the discussion of androgens…testosterone dht and estrogen.

And then of course gyno…in which case is not always caused by this genetic disorder…in fact in most cases it’s not…which I’m sure you guys know. He claimed that gyno is caused when a male has too little testosterone and too much estrogen. I added input and asked a rhetorical question…“Also, can’t a guy develop gyno from too much testosterone…in which case excess testosterone is converted to estrogen via aromatase?”

At this point he totally disagreed and went stated that was IMPOSSIBLE. That estrogen and testosterone are TOTALLY different hormones and they cannot convert at all to either…he said that it was like me saying gas can convert to drinking water. This obviously went back and forth and I even went as far as to bring up steroid use.

I said…if that’s the case explain to me how a male taking large amounts of testosterone can develop estrogen side effects…gyno…water bloat etc? He stated that was because hormones were like a see saw and that the body produces more estrogen in order to balance the higher levels of test…which is somewhat true…what hes missing is that aromatase is one of the KEY ways in which the body tries to keep this balance.

I told him I would bring in the research to prove all of this …as he feverishly denied any truth and tried his best to be sarcastic and make me look idiotic in front of the class. Any help here…I have some literature…but I want some REAL CLEAR literature on testosterone being converted to estrogen via aromatase from a reputable source…like a medical journal or something of that matter…ANY help would be much appreciated.

This should help…

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Was something I was reading a couple days ago for the hell of it.

bmc

I am curious about what his response will be after reading this information. Most likely try to prove himself right if i were to guess. Please keep me posted.

bmc

I just sent him about 3 different med resources on the topic and an explanation of my own…I can post my email to him on here and of course his response.

Geez and he’s the professor

Post the email you sent (blank out names, email addresses etc. obviously). Feel free to post his forthcoming response too, this should be good.

Professor my ass.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Post the email you sent (blank out names, email addresses etc. obviously). Feel free to post his forthcoming response too, this should be good.

Professor my ass.[/quote]

Yea, it sounds funny.

This just seems to be standard protocol for quite a few instructors these days… the complete ignorance of current research…

Oh well, that’s the world we live in. Be glad you’re savvy enough to do your own research as opposed to listening to every word you professor speaks and accepting it as truth.

Ditto with Makavali-- professor, my ass.

World

Dear Prof. XXXXXX,

I am in your Monday night human sexuality class.  Tonight in class we had a discussion in which I stated that testosterone in a male is converted into estrogen(more specifically estradiol), and you claimed I was false.  First, I would like to apologize if I offended you in any way from disagreeing with you in front of the class like that.  However, here is the medical proof as promised. 
  1. This website basically just gives a medical definition of what aromatase is - http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=15844

  2. This is an explanation of the role of aromatase by the Department of Pediatrics, Pediatric Endocrinology/Diabetology andMetabolism, University Children’s Hospital, Inselspital, Bern,Switzerland - http://www.thieme-connect.de/DOI/DOI?10.1055/s-2002-35374

  3. This is medical literature on how aromatase plays a role in gynecomastia - http://erc.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/reprint/6/2/315.pdf

    You made a very important point in that hormones in the body are like a ratio. In which case, if testosterone rises, as does estrogen to compensate for this rise and keep hormones in balance. However, this proved my point, as the MAIN, KEY way in which this balance is achieved is through aromatase. By conversion of that excess testosterone to estradiol and androstenedione to estrone. In fact, in males this accounts for the VAST majority of estrogens in the body. This is proven well when a man takes an aromatase inhibitor, like that of letrozole, his estrogens levels hit close to zero. I have also attached a picture showing the chemical conversion of testosterone to estradiol. This also illustrates the chemical similarities between the two hormones. Estradiol has a few more double bonds and a substituted hydroxyl instead of an oxygen, and thats about it.

Good deal. I am really curious as to what he says in response to this.

bmc

I can’t see what he possibly could say about that lol…I mean how could he possibly deny that.

Umm, gas can turn to water…

He knows shit about science, which is pretty common for a sociology prof.

I had a similar argument with a professor in a human sexuality course. He stated there were no known aphrodisiacs. I responded with research profiling dopamine agonists as libido enhancers. It basically ended with him trying to denigrate my sources, and me giving up realizing I wasn’t getting anywhere.

Generally, it’s not a good idea making the prof look like an ass in front of the class. He will try to save face no matter what. It depends on the fragility of the ego of your professor.

Since then I have realized DHT derivatives, 5HT2a antagonists, and alpha 2-adrenoceptor antagonists, are also libido enhancers with strong research supporting their use.

It makes you wonder… If the professor is wrong about one thing, is he talking out of his ass on rest of the material as well?

[quote]Dopamineloveaffa wrote:

It makes you wonder… If the professor is wrong about one thing, is he talking out of his ass on rest of the material as well?[/quote]

I think you could learn a lot about human sexuality from someone without a background in biochem or physiology. I’m guess their background is in pysch or sociology?

However - it sucks when you get owned by something that’s probably mentioned in most freshman biology books.

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
Dopamineloveaffa wrote:

It makes you wonder… If the professor is wrong about one thing, is he talking out of his ass on rest of the material as well?

I think you could learn a lot about human sexuality from someone without a background in biochem or physiology. I’m guess their background is in pysch or sociology?

However - it sucks when you get owned by something that’s probably mentioned in most freshman biology books.[/quote]

Exactly…hes a certified psychologist and sex therapist…so I’m sure he knows more about human sexuality than I do…he just doesn’t know as much about hormones…and I would have just let it go if he hadn’t been as sarcastic and talked down to me like he did in front of the entire class…

[quote]facko wrote:
Exactly…hes a certified psychologist and sex therapist…so I’m sure he knows more about human sexuality than I do…he just doesn’t know as much about hormones…and I would have just let it go if he hadn’t been as sarcastic and talked down to me like he did in front of the entire class…[/quote]

A lot of mainstream medicine is years behind recent discoveries. When did scientist first discover the existence and function of aromatase?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
facko wrote:
Exactly…hes a certified psychologist and sex therapist…so I’m sure he knows more about human sexuality than I do…he just doesn’t know as much about hormones…and I would have just let it go if he hadn’t been as sarcastic and talked down to me like he did in front of the entire class…

A lot of mainstream medicine is years behind recent discoveries. When did scientist first discover the existence and function of aromatase?[/quote]

I was wondering this…funny thing I mentioned this to my biology professor…I was talking about how testosterone gets converted to estrogen via aromatase…and she had like a puzzled type look and was like sort offff…kind of like what she says when she asks a questions and gets an answer thats wrong.

[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
I think you could learn a lot about human sexuality from someone without a background in biochem or physiology. I’m guess their background is in pysch or sociology?

However - it sucks when you get owned by something that’s probably mentioned in most freshman biology books.[/quote]

His background was psychology and had his PhD where as I was getting my BA in psych. I am much more fond of the biochem and physiology and did extra research on my own to learn these things.