[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
There were nothing about smoking. Do the left consider smoking to be a sin? I think they do, since so many have themselves quit.[/quote]
As more data has reinforced the fact that smoking is bad for you, it’s become MUCH less socially acceptable. Many college campuses are now “smoke free” for example. You can’t even smoke outside in a designated area.
That, paired with the move toward more socialized health care where we are all going to be paying for an individual’s smoking-related health problems, has made smoking more of a “sin.”
I’d be interested in attitudes in Finland on smoking, since your health care system is more socialized than ours.
[/quote]
Same as everywhere, I suppose. I was in Thailand last november and it’s the same thing there. The need for moralizing in society seems to have a constant value. Former sinners are pardoned and new ones emerge.
Pricier cigarettes, less places to smoke. Questions like can a condominium prohibit smoking in apartments or not (unsettled). Employers can prohibit smoking at the workplace, but not outside the property during lunch hours, etc… It’s an ongoing process.
Finnish movies have always been more or less lousy, with a few notable exceptions. The new generation make films like Rare Exports and Iron Sky. Hmm, I have seen only the original short version of Rare Exports. I think they are movies that work well when watched in company.
So I can’t say I’m surprised nor particularly bothered by most of these, nor do I necessarily see all these as “leftist” positions.
I would like to hear what you think about this though.
In particular I found the whole “harvest babies for science, but don’t test on animals” swings rather amusing in a “we aren’t civilized at all” sort of way. [/quote]
That made me laugh in a sort of cynical way yeah. I’m most surprised that the acceptability rating of sex between unmarried man and woman is only 68%. That’s barely more than gay and lesbian relationship. I figured the difference would be far bigger.
So I can’t say I’m surprised nor particularly bothered by most of these, nor do I necessarily see all these as “leftist” positions.
I would like to hear what you think about this though.
[/quote]
Maybe Libertarian leaning, socially liberal people with a high value on individual freedom, are less likely to be “bothered” by these cultural changes?[/quote]
That is certainly part of it. I can’t in good conscious sit here and demand I be left alone to live my life (ironically not taking part in the vast majority of the things here listed) and not offer the same “as long as your actions don’t directly hurt me, I don’t care what you do” line of reasoning to others.
I do understand that this approach has flaws and consequences, but it’s generally where I’m at. I don’t have the energy to police other people’s lives to the degree others want to, from both sides of the spectrum.
I’m quite bothered by it as well. Since I was a child I’ve never understood why people care what sex someone else is attracted to, unless they themselves are attracted to an individual that isn’t into them as well. Therefore I’ve always been a very big supporter of the “lgbt movement” by default. Here was a group of people who just wanted to be able to be honest about how they feel and live without their lives destroyed in the process. Nobel enough goal, IMO. What consenting adults do sexually in their privacy is not of my concern.
But now, I’m no longer able to support the “movement” on whole. Because these very same people that assured they only want acceptance, are now actively trying to destroy the lives of “others” now that they have popular support. They have pushed their “good thing” into a negative, and become what they have spent decades trying to defeat.
It’s rather sad.
[quote] You’d think free speech is so fundamental, that we’d all agree on that one. Go figure. The left leaning people who are pushing some of these issues can be intolerant of people who don’t want to go along, or are on the opposite side of some of these shifting social attitudes, because of their religious moral compass. We saw that in Indiana with the “You’ll host my gay wedding reception or else” kind of tactics.
[/quote]
It’s collectivism, plain and simple. We’ve been infected, and can’t cut out the tumor any longer. Our society, our government and our freedom is now a terminal cancer patient. I understand my general apathy described in the first paragraph doesn’t help, but at this point, I’m not so sure a soap box or ballot box is going to turn this tide.
I’m convinced the money will run out before the leftist purge independent thought from our nation, before their “PC Newspeak” creates thought crime actually punishable by government and before the reeducation camps come into full swing. However, if I’m wrong, I can’t wait to have long and wonderful conversations with a lot of you at said camps.
[/quote]
Yep.
I often find myself in the strange position of supporting some things that I personally don’t participate in or even that sometimes go against my own moral compass for the sake of individual freedom, and also for pragmatic reasons. [/quote]
It’s frustrating, yet at the same time, liberating and generally more healthy. I haven’t lost my convictions, and when in the mood I’ll speak my mind, etc, but I just dont’ have the will to seek out political or social fights anymore. (Shit I don’t have the will to fight with my family, including my toddler who is just like dad, with enough mom mixed in that I have full on arguments about appropriate behavior at 630am…)
It does at times feel like I’ve “given up the fight for what is right, and just in the world, and my complacency is only adding to the destruction”. But then I think back to the early point in my life where I was a collectivist’s wet dream and thought the world was ending because 43 was in office and people were actually dumb enough to vote republican…
I fade back and forth between “we’re doomed” and “don’t like macro economic and political issues steer your life”. Maybe I’m still part of the problem.
I stopped smoking years ago, but weed isn’t going to help him during PMS at all, lol.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
There were nothing about smoking. Do the left consider smoking to be a sin? I think they do, since so many have themselves quit.[/quote]
As more data has reinforced the fact that smoking is bad for you, it’s become MUCH less socially acceptable. Many college campuses are now “smoke free” for example. You can’t even smoke outside in a designated area.
That, paired with the move toward more socialized health care where we are all going to be paying for an individual’s smoking-related health problems, has made smoking more of a “sin.”
I’d be interested in attitudes in Finland on smoking, since your health care system is more socialized than ours.
[/quote]
Same as everywhere, I suppose. I was in Thailand last november and it’s the same thing there. The need for moralizing in society seems to have a constant value. Former sinners are pardoned and new ones emerge.
Pricier cigarettes, less places to smoke. Questions like can a condominium prohibit smoking in apartments or not (unsettled). Employers can prohibit smoking at the workplace, but not outside the property during lunch hours, etc… It’s an ongoing process.
Finnish movies have always been more or less lousy, with a few notable exceptions. The new generation make films like Rare Exports and Iron Sky. Hmm, I have seen only the original short version of Rare Exports. I think they are movies that work well when watched in company.
[/quote]
Are you a native Finn? American living abroad?
So, not known for film or food. Horror films about Santa Claus, LOTS of metal bands, hockey, people who don’t want to hug you but don’t mind getting naked in the sauna, and formula one racing? LOVE IT.
Our son is getting ready to step away from University for two years to serve a mission for our church in FINLAND. No, it’s not really about trying to convert people there. More a service type of thing. Still, if you see a handsome 19-year-old with a huge smile, ask him if his mom is a little weight lifting chick from CA before you tell him to get the hell off your porch. He’s a smart guy with a great sense of humor. You’d enjoy talking politics and religion with him.
So, not known for film or food. Horror films about Santa Claus, LOTS of metal bands, hockey, people who don’t want to hug you but don’t mind getting naked in the sauna, and formula one racing? LOVE IT.
Our son is getting ready to step away from University for two years to serve a mission for our church in FINLAND. No, it’s not really about trying to convert people there. More a service type of thing. Still, if you see a handsome 19-year-old with a huge smile, ask him if his mom is a little weight lifting chick from CA before you tell him to get the hell off your porch. He’s a smart guy with a great sense of humor. You’d enjoy talking politics and religion with him.
[/quote]
Native Finn, born in Sweden 51 years ago.
Are you Mormons? Your son has learned Finnish then? I talked once with two young Mormons who were here on service and they spoke reasonably good Finnish.
I think he’ll find many things familiar and unproblematic. The weather can give a surprise, though. Many people suffer from mild depression when the amount of daily light falls rapidly (oct/nov) and then again (E: in lesser extent) when it increases rapidly (april/may). Most often it comes in the form of sleepiness and hunger. So nothing to worry about, but it’s good to recognize. And people are more open to conversation in the summer.
Most of this though is where you put your weight on things. At the state level I think we are seeing a push to the right in many areas. Look at Kansas, Wisconsin, and many other states. With dominant majorities in many Republican states you’re seeing a big push in anti-choice laws and curbs to welfare among other things. Yes, if you want to point at some issues we are moving left (obviously same sex marriage), but I don’t think it is nearly this simple to say on the whole. With the massive amount of success Republicans have had on the state and local levels recently I think one could argue we are shifting right.
As usual it will depend on where you want to put your weight in the analysis. Also if you think gambling is immoral fuck off and leave me alone and stop passing laws limiting my freedom. No I’m not over Bill Frist
Some of these are weird anyways. Less people thinking suicide is not immoral represents a leftward shift? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone left or right who defined their views on something like that. Doctor assisted suicide? Really? That’s where we are drawing the big line to say Americans are moving left? These seem like very poor metrics to use.
So, not known for film or food. Horror films about Santa Claus, LOTS of metal bands, hockey, people who don’t want to hug you but don’t mind getting naked in the sauna, and formula one racing? LOVE IT.
Our son is getting ready to step away from University for two years to serve a mission for our church in FINLAND. No, it’s not really about trying to convert people there. More a service type of thing. Still, if you see a handsome 19-year-old with a huge smile, ask him if his mom is a little weight lifting chick from CA before you tell him to get the hell off your porch. He’s a smart guy with a great sense of humor. You’d enjoy talking politics and religion with him.
[/quote]
Native Finn, born in Sweden 51 years ago.
Are you Mormons? Your son has learned Finnish then? I talked once with two young Mormons who were here on service and they spoke reasonably good Finnish.
I think he’ll find many things familiar and unproblematic. The weather can give a surprise, though. Many people suffer from mild depression when the amount of daily light falls rapidly (oct/nov) and then again (E: in lesser extent) when it increases rapidly (april/may). Most often it comes in the form of sleepiness and hunger. So nothing to worry about, but it’s good to recognize. And people are more open to conversation in the summer.
I hope he’ll have a nice stay in Finland.
[/quote]
Thank you. Yes, I am Mormon, although in some ways an unconventional one.
Ah, 51 years a Finn. We’ll I’m 45 years an American.
About the language, our son tried to teach himself Finnish when he was 15 as a bit of a linguistics experiment. Your language was chosen because it’s SO different from English in it’s grammatical structure. He’s not fluent, but he’s had some exposure babysitting little Finns and watching Finnish TV, and reading Donald Duck comics and such. Right now he does pretty well talking to our friend’s three-year-old, but gets lost listening to adults. He’ll have 3 months of intensive language instruction before he heads for Finland in late September.
I think he’ll be OK with the crazy hard language, but I’m a bit worried about how he’ll adjust to the dark days of winter and the COLD. I’m relieved that he’ll be in a relatively safe part of the world where I won’t be worried about him picking up an exotic illness or being held for ransom. Also, very happy for him because he’s SO excited for this big adventure. He’s also interested in architecture and industrial design, another reason he’s excited to go to Finland.
Thank you. Yes, I am Mormon, although in some ways an unconventional one.
Ah, 51 years a Finn. We’ll I’m 45 years an American.
About the language, our son tried to teach himself Finnish when he was 15 as a bit of a linguistics experiment. Your language was chosen because it’s SO different from English in it’s grammatical structure. He’s not fluent, but he’s had some exposure babysitting little Finns and watching Finnish TV, and reading Donald Duck comics and such. Right now he does pretty well talking to our friend’s three-year-old, but gets lost listening to adults. He’ll have 3 months of intensive language instruction before he heads for Finland in late September.
I think he’ll be OK with the crazy hard language, but I’m a bit worried about how he’ll adjust to the dark days of winter and the COLD. I’m relieved that he’ll be in a relatively safe part of the world where I won’t be worried about him picking up an exotic illness or being held for ransom. Also, very happy for him because he’s SO excited for this big adventure. He’s also interested in architecture and industrial design, another reason he’s excited to go to Finland.
I don’t spend a lot of time in this forum.
Is your interest mostly religion, or politics?
Best to you!
Puff
[/quote]
When there is snow it isn’t dark anymore. Your son arrives at the beginning of the darkest period and he’s excited so it will probably be an exotic experience, especially when it snows for the fist time. Cold is easily fixed with proper clothing. I can foresee a busy and nervous mom in next September.
I’m interested in both, but it’s easier for me to say something about religion than American politics, so it’s probably religion on PWI.
Thank you. Yes, I am Mormon, although in some ways an unconventional one.
Ah, 51 years a Finn. We’ll I’m 45 years an American.
About the language, our son tried to teach himself Finnish when he was 15 as a bit of a linguistics experiment. Your language was chosen because it’s SO different from English in it’s grammatical structure. He’s not fluent, but he’s had some exposure babysitting little Finns and watching Finnish TV, and reading Donald Duck comics and such. Right now he does pretty well talking to our friend’s three-year-old, but gets lost listening to adults. He’ll have 3 months of intensive language instruction before he heads for Finland in late September.
I think he’ll be OK with the crazy hard language, but I’m a bit worried about how he’ll adjust to the dark days of winter and the COLD. I’m relieved that he’ll be in a relatively safe part of the world where I won’t be worried about him picking up an exotic illness or being held for ransom. Also, very happy for him because he’s SO excited for this big adventure. He’s also interested in architecture and industrial design, another reason he’s excited to go to Finland.
I don’t spend a lot of time in this forum.
Is your interest mostly religion, or politics?
Best to you!
Puff
[/quote]
When there is snow it isn’t dark anymore. Your son arrives at the beginning of the darkest period and he’s excited so it will probably be an exotic experience, especially when it snows for the fist time. Cold is easily fixed with proper clothing. I can foresee a busy and nervous mom in next September.
I’m interested in both, but it’s easier for me to say something about religion than American politics, so it’s probably religion on PWI.[/quote]
About the cold, he’ll buy serious winter gear there. It’s impossible to shop for winter in Finland from California in May. I am a bit nervous, but also relieved that he isn’t living at home making a dent in my couch and playing video games. These boys have a way of turning into men, and that’s generally a good thing. I am going to miss him, so that part will be very hard. He had ZERO pressure from us to go, in fact we expected that he might not want to leave the university to serve a mission, so this is very much his thing and his adventure. He’s so excited, we can’t help but be excited for him. Hopefully he learns to love the people there, spends some time being selfless, and comes home with a wider view of the world.
From your recent comments in another thread I understand you were raised in a church but are now agnostic or atheist. It seems that is common in Finland. It’s certainly a growing demographic here in the US. It would be interesting to see similar statistics from the Gallup Poll link from where you are. I believe we tend to talk about religion more openly here, where I understand it is often a more private subject in your country. Not that Finns aren’t interested in religion, but they generally talk about it only among close friends.
Very nice to chat with you.
Sorry about the long threadjack, Beans. I saw Finland and couldn’t help myself.
This is a sign on a restroom at my university gym (not the locker room). I always thought the sign with the stick figure in pants with the stick figure in a skirt was already fairly inclusive, as in “Everybody welcome to potty here.” I put this picture on my facebook feed and got a lot of funny comments.
Most of this though is where you put your weight on things. At the state level I think we are seeing a push to the right in many areas. Look at Kansas, Wisconsin, and many other states. With dominant majorities in many Republican states you’re seeing a big push in anti-choice laws and curbs to welfare among other things. Yes, if you want to point at some issues we are moving left (obviously same sex marriage), but I don’t think it is nearly this simple to say on the whole. With the massive amount of success Republicans have had on the state and local levels recently I think one could argue we are shifting right.
As usual it will depend on where you want to put your weight in the analysis. Also if you think gambling is immoral fuck off and leave me alone and stop passing laws limiting my freedom. No I’m not over Bill Frist
Some of these are weird anyways. Less people thinking suicide is not immoral represents a leftward shift? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone left or right who defined their views on something like that. Doctor assisted suicide? Really? That’s where we are drawing the big line to say Americans are moving left? These seem like very poor metrics to use. [/quote]
I see some of this as well.
The boycott on Chick-fil-A was countered with a buycott by the right, which resulted in some of their restaurants being unable to keep up with demand. Obviously, some push back from people who share their ideals, or who don’t want to see a restaurant put out of business over their views.
Efforts to remove Phil Robertson’s Duck Dynasty show from the air failed, although he continues to polarize and say some pretty cringe-worthy stuff.
The Memory Pizza incident in Indiana resulted in people donating more than $800,000 for the owners in a matter of days, putting them in a better position than before, and a lot of people on the right expressed discomfort with the way the owners were targeted and vilified.
This is a sign on a restroom at my university gym (not the locker room). I always thought the sign with the stick figure in pants with the stick figure in a skirt was already fairly inclusive, as in “Everybody welcome to potty here.” I put this picture on my facebook feed and got a lot of funny comments.
[/quote]
It’s all fun and games until some pervert abuses the feelings of the what, 1% of the population that thinks they have this issue by using this shit to follow your (proverbial) son into the restroom and perve him.
The Memory Pizza incident in Indiana resulted in people donating more than $800,000 for the owners in a matter of days, putting them in a better position than before, and a lot of people on the right expressed discomfort with the way the owners were targeted and vilified.
[/quote]
I want to say it was 36 hours. Almost a million dollars in 36 hours because some douchebag reporter sandbagged you and the LBGT Mafia put your head on a spike because you dare not comply…
I related to some of your earlier comments about choosing your battles. And like you, I put a high value on personal freedom and a government that mostly gets out of the way. UNLESS people want to infringe on my freedoms.
There was a recent article in the WSJ about efforts at by groups on the left to stop or silence groups like the Koch Foundation from funding presentations or speeches on conservative topics at university campuses. Even though most of the financial data in terms of grant money and compensation is a matter of public record, they like to go after conservative groups for disclosure of ALL correspondence emails, etc… between the academic group or professor and the foundation. They do it in the name of “transparency,” but it’s always only those groups they disagree with, so it becomes an intimidation tactic to try to stop the free exchange of ideas, and effectively silence conservative voices.
This is the kind of thing that will get me up in arms.
The Memory Pizza incident in Indiana resulted in people donating more than $800,000 for the owners in a matter of days, putting them in a better position than before, and a lot of people on the right expressed discomfort with the way the owners were targeted and vilified.
[/quote]
I want to say it was 36 hours. Almost a million dollars in 36 hours because some douchebag reporter sandbagged you and the LBGT Mafia put your head on a spike because you dare not comply…
[/quote]
Wow. Yes, and I meant to say people on the LEFT were uncomfortable. A lot of liberals and gay people seem to feel like it had gone too far.
This is a sign on a restroom at my university gym (not the locker room). I always thought the sign with the stick figure in pants with the stick figure in a skirt was already fairly inclusive, as in “Everybody welcome to potty here.” I put this picture on my facebook feed and got a lot of funny comments.
[/quote]
Please forgive my ignorance. When these restrooms are available, is the also men’s/women’s (normal) restrooms offered?
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
and effectively silence conservative voices.
This is the kind of thing that will get me up in arms. [/quote]
Yeah, but it’s really no different now than it was when I was in college 10-15 years ago. It’s just now, with social media, and the hipp thing being anti-republicanism, it’s a louder scream.
But in reality, higher education and editorial boards of major publications are very “left”… That isn’t new, and was the plan all along since the hippies and Woodstock.
This is a sign on a restroom at my university gym (not the locker room). I always thought the sign with the stick figure in pants with the stick figure in a skirt was already fairly inclusive, as in “Everybody welcome to potty here.” I put this picture on my facebook feed and got a lot of funny comments.
[/quote]
Please forgive my ignorance. When these restrooms are available, is the also men’s/women’s (normal) restrooms offered?
[/quote]
Where there is a unisex restroom, they are replacing the male/female signs with these. In my gym, there are two of these single restrooms off the lobby, and both now have these new signs. The men’s locker room is still marked with the universal men figure, and the women’s locker room still has the figure with the skirt.
It’s a way of bucking the gender binary, or trying to be PC by going above and beyond to acknowledge the tiny percentage of people who don’t want to identify as EITHER gender. For example, there is a person in the English Dept here who has a unisex name, dresses in a unisex way, and does not want to be referred to with gender pronouns like he or she. It’s a lot like the Pat character from SNL. Seriously. I’m in California and we seem to be ground zero for some of this stuff.
Or it could be that “The Artist Formerly Known as Prince” has his own private restroom. I’m not sure.
