Shelby Starnes & Other Prep Coaches – Killing Clients?

Or be up front about what you’re getting. I paid for powerlifting coaching for a number of years and it was always very clear to me that my coach had me on one of a few templates he used for his lifters with tweak he’d make along the way that were specific to me.

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There were a number of YouTube videos I viewed last year related to the thread.

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That was a hard article to read.

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I would think that you can only be adjacent to or intertwined with so many people who end up dead before people begin to scatter from you and law enforcement starts looking more closely, but apparently not.

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Another question comes to mind: folks (like me) tend to conflate everything under the “steroid” umbrella… so when we see someone on TRT, we’re like “you’re obviously going to die, bro!” Now I’m wondering if it’s more specific to some of the crazy stuff people do to get lean. It would definitely help explain some of what we see with the Instagram lean year-round generation vs the golden era in terms of early mortality.

This is all anecdotal and I have no idea what I’m talking about in terms of the drugs/ dehydration / etc. Just pondering out loud.

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It’s getting easier to conflate “steroid user” with “TRT patient,” mainly because “I’m on TRT” is the new “I source illegal gear and/or use 3X the amount the doctor prescribed plus some other stuff.” Weird trend, even on these forums. Then they ask how to fix all their side effects.

:man_shrugging:

And yes, the dehydrated grainy look, diuretics, clen, etc. is definitely a big contributor to many of these deaths. I think Thibaudeau gets into some of these here:

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It’s also crazy what these clinics are willing to prescribe right out of the gate. I had some lab results with low T and out of curiosity contacted one of them to see what they’d say. The dosage they seemed willing to put me on was not TRT by any stretch of the imagination – it was a low dose steroid cycle without the cycling part.

Speaking as a college strength and conditioning coach, perhaps it is different in bodybuilding, but in other sports, the athlete usually does not know the risk, and often has no idea at all about much of anything because they are not subject matter experts on anything other than the sport they play, so they are completely dependent on their coach, and they trust the coach to give them good coaching, keep them safe, and give them coaching and instruction that is going to benefit them in the pursuit of their sport.
Your first responsibility as a coach is to do no harm, either physically or to the athlete’s ability to compete in their chosen sport, and the athlete trusts you implicitly to provide them with what is good and safe for them.
It is criminal for any coach to knowingly put their athlete in unnecessary danger and to violate that responsibility and their athlete’s trust.

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Definitely different in the competitive bodybuilding world. Sadly!

True. Men very seldom need more than 100mg a week for REAL testosterone replacement therapy. Double that, which is commonly prescribed, is nice for extra gains I’m sure, but then the side effects start to rear their ugly heads.

My advice has always been “be satisfied” when it comes to testosterone. Work with a progressive doc and get yourself up to high-normal, healthy T levels. Too many people are F 'ing around and wrecking themselves for some short-term gains and a few Band-Aids on their mental hang-ups.

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I genuinely do not think that stage competitors are unaware the risks they take with respect to AAS. But the diuretics, sodium, and water cuts… I’d agree most are uninformed how damaging this can be.

Still, I don’t think anyone looking to step on stage is doing so because they think it’s healthy.

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This plus the extreme water cuts, for sure, exacerbate the issues, particularly short-term. Not a bodybuilder, but I’ve done large (10% of bodyweight) water cuts in the span of 24 hours. The side effects of that are pretty insane. I’ve let my blood pressure get well into levels that are supposed to send you to the ER, for short periods of time during those cuts. Resting heart rate nearly double my normal rate. Awful cramps, weakness, nausea. Etc. And I’ve never taken the harsher diuretics (I only use caffeine and dandelion root), I’ve never used fat burners of any kind, etc. I can’t imagine how bad that shit would have made me feel, and the potential health issues that could have resulted.

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Great points. I don’t always do a good job of drawing parallels. I wrestled in high school and some of college, and I struggled with making weight. I used way too much ephedrine (before the NCAA said “no more”) l, on top of all the normal stupid stuff like working out in trash bags and napping in the sauna, and I can’t imagine it did my heart any favors. I’m probably much luckier than I gave any credit at the time.

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I stopped cutting weight my Junior year of high school and it made a big impact on my performance. I don’t know if I would’ve gotten a scholarship in the first place if I had continued cutting weight and putting so much focus on that instead of solely on my performance on the mat. It felt good just letting myself get big and strong.

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Oh man. All the ‘old school’ ways! It’s crazy how many people still approach weight cuts like that. I’m fortunate enough to know how to avoid the trash bags and saunas, lol. There are much more efficient ways to get the job done now.

What’s the most you ever had to cut in a day?

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100%! I was soooo much better heavier… unfortunately so was the guy at next weight class up. Old school mentality, too: if you can make the weight, you should make the weight. It definitely ruined the sport for me.

I’m absolutely sure. I kid you not, my nutrition “education” was a coach once saying to eat rice because the kids from Asian countries were leaner than us.

14 lbs. (I still remember it!) I know a lot of folks have to cut harder these days, but that was to get down to 152 in high school so it was a huge percentage of my weight; that was a tough one.

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that’s a ton at that bodyweight, for sure. Biggest cut I did within 24 hours was a little over 20, but I started just over 200 lbs, cutting down to 181. Not sure how the percentages compare, probably similar.

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We know similar pains, for sure, anyway. The difference in your sport is you then load your joints so heavily. That seems brutal.

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I handle the re-feed better than a lot of people I know who also cut weight. A lot of people put all this effort into the cut, and then they have no plan for how to get back to starting weight, they just shovel food in their mouths all day. I always have structure to meal/liquid/electrolyte timing as I’m preparing to compete after a weight cut. I generally feel great by the time I’m actually competing.

I also make sure I make weight as early as possible the day before competing, to give my body the largest re-feed window I can. That’s a big deal.

I can’t imagine what it’s like for bodybuilders who have to step on stage and compete in that depleted state. That must absolutely suck.

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I was this guy. I would make weight, eat a sandwich and chug a gatorade, pray I could go to the bathroom before my first match… if not, it got pretty exciting