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Sheiko vs. Block Periodization

From what I understand, Block periodization, very generally, is a periodization method that breaks training into 3 phases: accumulation, transformation and realization. Volume decreases while intensity increases as you travel across the blocks.

Sheiko believes in manipulating volume rather than intensity, so for preparatory cycles, volume is steadily increasing while maintaining average intensity at the %68-72 mark. Then volume drops for the peaking cycle, but avg. intensity remains the same.

So, my questions are, for those with more experience in these methods of training:

  1. Am I properly perceiving the differences?
  2. Is one fundamentally better under certain circumstances than the other?
  3. Has one, historically, proven to be a more popular (or successful) method among competitive powerlifters?

Please don’t respond with “it’s all about effort, not programming, bro.” I understand that aspect of training. I am looking more for a critical discussion regarding these methods from those that have used one or both of them.

Thanks for your responses.

Sheiko, much like Westside, should be monitored by the coach who came up w/ it. You can get away w/ more using WS as an individual, but it’s the atmosphere and coaching that makes the biggest difference using Sheiko. Sheiko, much like WS, is contoured to the individual lifter.

  1. IMO, block periodzation works, just not as well as others. There is no hypertrophy phase in Sheiko.
  2. Never tried block but tried a “version” of Sheiko and it’s brutal volume even at those percentages.
  3. Both were successful on some level.

I’ve never been a program guy. Far too rigid for the daily changes that occur. My personal belief is you take advantage of the days where you feel good instead of sticking to just a straight program, which may still ok under certain programs, but if it is, you some how alter the next training day in some way and it would probably have to be adjusted.

Here’s what I follow:

Wk1 - 5’s starting at 50%
Wk2 - 3’s starting at 50%
Wk3 - 2’s starting at 50%
Wk4 - work up to 3x8x50%
Wk5 - same as wk1
Wk6 - same as wk2
Wk7 - 1’s starting at 80%
Wk8 - same as wk4

Allows auto regulation to how you feel that day. Make 20lb jumps between sets or just use 45/25/10lb plates. Work up to the heaviest weight you can that day while still getting the required reps. This also regulates volume and intensity. No figuring out a bunch of percentages to hit. Just get under the bar and get the reps. Very simple and very effective.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Sheiko, much like Westside, should be monitored by the coach who came up w/ it. You can get away w/ more using WS as an individual, but it’s the atmosphere and coaching that makes the biggest difference using Sheiko. Sheiko, much like WS, is contoured to the individual lifter.

  1. IMO, block periodzation works, just not as well as others. There is no hypertrophy phase in Sheiko.
  2. Never tried block but tried a “version” of Sheiko and it’s brutal volume even at those percentages.
  3. Both were successful on some level.

I’ve never been a program guy. Far too rigid for the daily changes that occur. My personal belief is you take advantage of the days where you feel good instead of sticking to just a straight program, which may still ok under certain programs, but if it is, you some how alter the next training day in some way and it would probably have to be adjusted.

Here’s what I follow:

Wk1 - 5’s starting at 50%
Wk2 - 3’s starting at 50%
Wk3 - 2’s starting at 50%
Wk4 - work up to 3x8x50%
Wk5 - same as wk1
Wk6 - same as wk2
Wk7 - 1’s starting at 80%
Wk8 - same as wk4

Allows auto regulation to how you feel that day. Make 20lb jumps between sets or just use 45/25/10lb plates. Work up to the heaviest weight you can that day while still getting the required reps. This also regulates volume and intensity. No figuring out a bunch of percentages to hit. Just get under the bar and get the reps. Very simple and very effective.
[/quote]
I have seen you post this plan on here before. Can I ask how long you have been doing it? How has your progress been? Also, do you never do sets of greater than 5 except on the 4/8 weeks which seem like a deload week? Or do you do assistance lifts with higher sets?

It works very well. For example - at the beginning of 2013 my bench press was 310lbs in the gym - 302 in competition. Dec 7th 2013 meet in Salem, OH for 100% RAW federation went 308/330/352 for 50lb PR in competition. Probably left 20lbs or so on the bench which is ok. I have something to shoot for the next time. 360 in the gym was tops. Deadlift went 363/407/451 w/ a lot to spare. I hadn’t trained the deadlift for 3 months due to some issues and really had no idea where I was. Trained it for 3 weeks prior to the meet using the first half of this method and honestly surprised myself. I was good for 475 for sure and possibly 500. Everything was fast.

Weeks 4 and 8 are for deloading. You can do 3x10x50% as well. It’s up to you. A deload is whatever you need. If you need a week off, then do it. Especially week 8. Remember, on weeks 1-3 and 5-7, you still have to warm up to the starting weight at 50% - so yes, more than 5 reps on those days is ok when warming up. Once you get to 50%, it’s whatever the required reps are the rest of the way up making those jumps.

On week 8, you can do whatever you want for reps to get warmed up until you get to 80%. If it’s singles, doubles, triples, whatever…doesn’t matter as long as you feel ready to starting hitting some fast and heavy singles.

I don’t do a lot of assistance. I believe if you want to make progress you need to practice the lift w/ volume and time under the bar perfecting technique and motor patterns. Assistance work for me usually involves a “pump” w/ bands and very light dumbbells. The “pump” allows me to push the necessary blood and nutrients into whatever it is I just got done working for recovery.

Most raw lifters are severely overtrained. Yes, I know there are those that don’t believe in overtraining, just undertrained - good for them. The reality is it happens. IMO, there’s no reason to leave the gym beat up. There’s no reason not to come into the gym fresh and ready to hit some big weight. I don’t believe it’s the main lifts that keep lifters beat up, it’s all the extra afterwards. With the exception of Sheiko (which is mostly coaching and close monitoring behind that success), look at Vladimir Volkov’s bench method or Alexander Faleev’s philosophy. If you look at the current world champion Malanchiev’s method, it’s very similar when training for a meet. Lots of advice out there about powerlifting being a marathon and not a sprint. This method will allow you to do that. Watch out tho, it’ll surprise ya! Putting in work day after day and then seeing the realization of that displayed on the platform while being healthy and uninjured is a great feeling.

Simple and VERY effective.

Block periodization is about much more than variation of volume and intensity, what you describe is just basic linear periodization.

Block periodization is actually intended to be used in training for sports with complex and uncomplimentary training needs, for example where athletes need to develop both strength and endurance alongside the skills of their sport.

In block periodization training is organised into concentrated blocks focusing on specific qualities. The organisation of and length of the blocks is determined by the length of the residual effects of the qualities trained i.e. how long qualities can be maintained with minimal/no specific training. Accumulation, transmutation and realization blocks are organised so that all of the residual effects from each block all carry over to the end of the realization block, when an athlete would compete.

So for powerlifting it usually looks something like this:

Accumulation - General training, structural development (hypertrophy etc.) > longest residual effects
Transmutation - Specific training, maximal strength development > shorter residual effects
Realization - Highly specific training, skill development in the competition lifts > shortest residual effects
Meet

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]
X2

@osu
I think it’s cool that you just like moving heavy shit, but I really hate everything you say. You could look at the way other top powerlifters, like mike t or pretty much any other top ipf guy, train and see that they use a high volume/high frequency approach. But I guess they’re all overtrained and training suboptimally right?

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]

Why? Does bw matter? If my bw stayed the same, does it matter? My training partner is 54 years old in 242 class. I took him from a 600lb deadlift and 385lb bench press and in less than two years went out to Vegas for 100%RAW World Meet and he pulled 655 and bench 418 squat 424. 3 world records for that federation using it. That’s a big increase for a 50+ yr old drug free lifter.

I don’t really need to defend my bw but i’m in the 242 class. The names I stated above use a similar philosophy, their genetics just happen to be much better than mine.

They work for me and for others who have used it. It is simple and very effective.

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:

Sheiko believes in manipulating volume rather than intensity, so for preparatory cycles, volume is steadily increasing…[/quote]

I’m no expert, but according to the standard Sheiko templates, that is not correct; volume does not steadily increase for the cycles, and the relative changes in week-to-week volume are inconsistent between cycles (so no generalizations about the overall approach to volume can be made like “week 1 is moderate volume” or “week 1 is high volume”). Here are examples of total volume each week for a lifter with 400/300/500 maxes:

#29
Week 1: 60255
Week 2: 64550
Week 3: 59810
Week 4: 62650

#30
Week 1: 91000
Week 2: 70515
Week 3: 95350
Week 4: 57120

#37
Week 1: 69285
Week 2: 66675
Week 3: 83590
Week 4: 56780

[quote]budreiser wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]
X2

@osu
I think it’s cool that you just like moving heavy shit, but I really hate everything you say. You could look at the way other top powerlifters, like mike t or pretty much any other top ipf guy, train and see that they use a high volume/high frequency approach. But I guess they’re all overtrained and training suboptimally right? [/quote]

A top level guy does what works for him. That’s PART of how they got there. I have done high frequency and have yielded good results, but in the long run, you can’t keep up the pace before you need to rest or make a change.

ALL the top lifters know how to listen to their bodies. They know when to push and when not to push. That is why Mike come up w/ his system to help measure each set. It works for him and probably others.

What is so false about what I said? Because you think you need to go kill it every single time every single day? Some people need more recovery than others. It’s that simple. But as my template has stated either here or elsewhere on this site, it’s all dependent upon listening to your body that day.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
It works very well. For example - at the beginning of 2013 my bench press was 310lbs in the gym - 302 in competition. Dec 7th 2013 meet in Salem, OH for 100% RAW federation went 308/330/352 for 50lb PR in competition. Probably left 20lbs or so on the bench which is ok. I have something to shoot for the next time. 360 in the gym was tops. Deadlift went 363/407/451 w/ a lot to spare. I hadn’t trained the deadlift for 3 months due to some issues and really had no idea where I was. Trained it for 3 weeks prior to the meet using the first half of this method and honestly surprised myself. I was good for 475 for sure and possibly 500. Everything was fast.

Weeks 4 and 8 are for deloading. You can do 3x10x50% as well. It’s up to you. A deload is whatever you need. If you need a week off, then do it. Especially week 8. Remember, on weeks 1-3 and 5-7, you still have to warm up to the starting weight at 50% - so yes, more than 5 reps on those days is ok when warming up. Once you get to 50%, it’s whatever the required reps are the rest of the way up making those jumps.

On week 8, you can do whatever you want for reps to get warmed up until you get to 80%. If it’s singles, doubles, triples, whatever…doesn’t matter as long as you feel ready to starting hitting some fast and heavy singles.

I don’t do a lot of assistance. I believe if you want to make progress you need to practice the lift w/ volume and time under the bar perfecting technique and motor patterns. Assistance work for me usually involves a “pump” w/ bands and very light dumbbells. The “pump” allows me to push the necessary blood and nutrients into whatever it is I just got done working for recovery.

Most raw lifters are severely overtrained. Yes, I know there are those that don’t believe in overtraining, just undertrained - good for them. The reality is it happens. IMO, there’s no reason to leave the gym beat up. There’s no reason not to come into the gym fresh and ready to hit some big weight. I don’t believe it’s the main lifts that keep lifters beat up, it’s all the extra afterwards. With the exception of Sheiko (which is mostly coaching and close monitoring behind that success), look at Vladimir Volkov’s bench method or Alexander Faleev’s philosophy. If you look at the current world champion Malanchiev’s method, it’s very similar when training for a meet. Lots of advice out there about powerlifting being a marathon and not a sprint. This method will allow you to do that. Watch out tho, it’ll surprise ya! Putting in work day after day and then seeing the realization of that displayed on the platform while being healthy and uninjured is a great feeling.

Simple and VERY effective.

[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. I am currently on cycle 7 of 531, and have seen great improvement, but I always like to know what other people are doing and how it is working. I will probably stick with this until I hit another plateau though.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]budreiser wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]
X2

@osu
I think it’s cool that you just like moving heavy shit, but I really hate everything you say. You could look at the way other top powerlifters, like mike t or pretty much any other top ipf guy, train and see that they use a high volume/high frequency approach. But I guess they’re all overtrained and training suboptimally right? [/quote]

A top level guy does what works for him. That’s PART of how they got there. I have done high frequency and have yielded good results, but in the long run, you can’t keep up the pace before you need to rest or make a change.

ALL the top lifters know how to listen to their bodies. They know when to push and when not to push. That is why Mike come up w/ his system to help measure each set. It works for him and probably others.

What is so false about what I said? Because you think you need to go kill it every single time every single day? Some people need more recovery than others. It’s that simple. But as my template has stated either here or elsewhere on this site, it’s all dependent upon listening to your body that day.
[/quote]
So true. I spend 2.5 hrs in the gym lifting per week divided by two days, and when I have done more, I regress. And about every 6 weeks, I take a complete week off from lifting.

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

So true. I spend 2.5 hrs in the gym lifting per week divided by two days, and when I have done more, I regress. And about every 6 weeks, I take a complete week off from lifting. [/quote]

Genetics isn’t everything, but I can tell you that average genetics; whether body frame/type or ability to build muscle, is only gonna take you so far no matter what the program. My friend Tyler Butcher is 25 years old single ply lifter 2300 total at Mr Olympia last year has always basically done 5’s and singles listening to his body. I could train for 20 years and never reach those numbers. He is a drug free lifter as well. Does not train high frequency or high volume or lots of assistance work.

Fact is: train what you believe works. If it works, then it works. If it doesn’t, then try something else. But methods and principles last forever. You cannot change them. It’s all in how you regulate and rotate those methods and principles over time. I came up w/ this because it works and it’s easy to follow. F~ everyone else if they don’t like it. I could care less.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]

I don’t really need to defend my bw but i’m in the 242 class.

They work for me and for others who have used it. It is simple and very effective.
[/quote]

Thing is that it doesn’t seem to work for YOU. For a 242 your numbers are shit and don’t give me the genetics crap. Anyway, I don’t want to be a dick to you for no good reason, but people dishing out advice should have something decent to back it up. If they don’t have that they should not make significant claims.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]

I don’t really need to defend my bw but i’m in the 242 class.

They work for me and for others who have used it. It is simple and very effective.
[/quote]

Thing is that it doesn’t seem to work for YOU. For a 242 your numbers are shit and don’t give me the genetics crap. Anyway, I don’t want to be a dick to you for no good reason, but people dishing out advice should have something decent to back it up. If they don’t have that they should not make significant claims.[/quote]
On the flip side, just because someone has good numbers, that doesn’t qualify them to give advice. I got to 315 bench natural raw with a body weight of 150 but admittedly didn’t know shit at the time. I am closer to 340 at the same body weight but am still learning. I know what works for me right now, but not for other people.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]

I don’t really need to defend my bw but i’m in the 242 class.

They work for me and for others who have used it. It is simple and very effective.
[/quote]

Thing is that it doesn’t seem to work for YOU. For a 242 your numbers are shit and don’t give me the genetics crap. Anyway, I don’t want to be a dick to you for no good reason, but people dishing out advice should have something decent to back it up. If they don’t have that they should not make significant claims.[/quote]

Even if my numbers are shit in comparison to other lifters, how can you say it doesn’t work for me if I’ve made increases using it? If my training partner at age 54 has made a 55lb increase to DL and 33lb bench drug free in less than 2 years uses it and has made gains w/ it, how can you say it doesn’t work? If my bench was at 310 in Jan 2013 and in December I hit 352 in competition, how does that not work? When’s the last time you made those kinds of gains on any lift? Just because it’s not a 500lb raw bench press??? Or an 800lb raw squat?

And those who don’t know any better say “genetics don’t mean shit”. Again, look at the top level lifters particularly those very young…You’re telling me it doesn’t mean anything? It’s not an excuse, it’s a reality. If we all trained the same, ate the same, slept the same w/ the same body type and body weight, some would lift more weight than others. Look at how the Russians and Bulgarians got their weightlifters. GENETICS MATTER!

But if a program works, then it works. If it keeps you healthy and lifting more weight over time, it works. Boris Sheiko dishes it out and can’t lift shit. He’s trained thousands. I’ve helped some guys make some good gains, but they are average lifters. My training partner is an above average lifter - a world record holder. There’s nothing wrong w/ the advice I’ve given. The principle and methods I use have been as old as dirt.

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]

I don’t really need to defend my bw but i’m in the 242 class.

They work for me and for others who have used it. It is simple and very effective.
[/quote]

Thing is that it doesn’t seem to work for YOU. For a 242 your numbers are shit and don’t give me the genetics crap. Anyway, I don’t want to be a dick to you for no good reason, but people dishing out advice should have something decent to back it up. If they don’t have that they should not make significant claims.[/quote]

On the flip side, just because someone has good numbers, that doesn’t qualify them to give advice. I got to 315 bench natural raw with a body weight of 150 but admittedly didn’t know shit at the time. I am closer to 340 at the same body weight but am still learning. I know what works for me right now, but not for other people.[/quote]

Sure, can happen but I would say that following somebody who is shitty is typically a worse bet.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Simple and VERY effective.
[/quote]

bw? You better be pretty light for those #s to back up your training ideas…
[/quote]

I don’t really need to defend my bw but i’m in the 242 class.

They work for me and for others who have used it. It is simple and very effective.
[/quote]

Thing is that it doesn’t seem to work for YOU. For a 242 your numbers are shit and don’t give me the genetics crap. Anyway, I don’t want to be a dick to you for no good reason, but people dishing out advice should have something decent to back it up. If they don’t have that they should not make significant claims.[/quote]

On the flip side, just because someone has good numbers, that doesn’t qualify them to give advice. I got to 315 bench natural raw with a body weight of 150 but admittedly didn’t know shit at the time. I am closer to 340 at the same body weight but am still learning. I know what works for me right now, but not for other people.[/quote]

Sure, can happen but I would say that following somebody who is shitty is typically a worse bet.
[/quote]
Lold

Sorry your thread got hijacked. I’m done arguing and this is all I’m gonna say. I’ll let Brandon Lilly say what I’ve been saying.

lol

Sheiko is a form of Block.